Why does America lead the world?

[Lightwave]

Sorry Rabbie I'd picked up 17 somewhere along the lines

 

[oumahexi]

Historically people used accents to interpret heritage and you were trusted or not based on that accent... I guess the implication being that if you had that accent you'd spent significant amounts of time in that area.

Still probably the best way of "guessing" the background of someone...

So true. When I came back from South Africa in the early 90s I sounded "posh" so it was much easier to pick up a job than it would have been had I spent the previous 17 years in, shall we say, Fauldhouse? However, because I'd lived in South Africa during the apartheid era I was automatically pigeon holed as a racist by a great number of people.

 

[Rabbie]

Sorry Rabbie I'd picked up 17 somewhere along the lines

No probs. He applied for and got US citizenship when he was 17. Sounds to me like he regarded himself as American

 

[Lightwave]

Hey there's nothing wrong with Fauldhouse

 

[oumahexi]

Hey there's nothing wrong with Fauldhouse

LOL, you're right, it's a good place to come from ha ha ha. Maybe not a good place to go to...

I jest, but they do have rather thick accents. That's thick as in pronounced, not thick as in they sound, ah, never mind, take it as it comes lol.

 

[Alc]

The Japanese for example still use English words that haven't been used in the West since the 1940s ("jumper" instead of sweater or jacket).

Is the UK not part of 'the West' now, then? I grew up using 'jumper' for what North Americans call a 'sweater'.

Bob Hope was born in England but he went to America when he was 17 and never looked back. If someone is born in one country but spent 60 years living in another (including becoming a citizen of that country), can the first country still claim him as one of their own?

To be precise, he left when he was about 4. He became a US citizen at 17. I can't find any reference to how he 'never looked back', so if you could provide links that would be a help.

As for your question, in my opinion, yes. If you're born in one country, that's your nationality, regardless of whether or not you change your citizenship. There's nothing you can do to alter the fact that you were born in one particular place as opposed to another.

Having said that, I know plenty of Canadians who'd disagree, in part so that they can claim the telephone as a Canadian invention, as opposed to one made by a Scot who happened to be living in Canada at the time.

 

[Rabbie]

LOL, you're right, it's a good place to come from ha ha ha. Maybe not a good place to go to...

I jest, but they do have rather thick accents. That's thick as in pronounced, not thick as in they sound, ah, never mind, take it as it comes lol.

Here's tae us
wha's like us
damn few
and they're a' deid

 

[oumahexi]

Here's tae us
wha's like us
damn few
and they're a' deid

am no deid yit!

 

[Rabbie]

am no deid yit!

I would be worried if you were deid and still posting

 

[oumahexi]

I would be worried if you were deid and still posting

Now, that would be the mark of a truly successful witch

 

[dan-cat]

As for your question, in my opinion, yes. If you're born in one country, that's your nationality, regardless of whether or not you change your citizenship. There's nothing you can do to alter the fact that you were born in one particular place as opposed to another.

Doesn't it really just come down to where the individual feels is 'home'?

 

[Lightwave]

This is news to me - I'm Trinidian - whom having been born in Port of Spain left after 2 months, have never been back and don't know anyone from there and have no relations from there...

Needless to say Trinidad knows nothing about me nor does anyone ever guess that I was from that country , I have no common ancestory from that country nor religion I have no ideas of the local customs or language.

and legally I am not recognised as a Trinidadian citizen.

But I was born there...

 

[Lightwave]

And did I mention I have difficulty spelling and saying the word.

You've got me wondering about the national anthem now.

 

[Alc]

Doesn't it really just come down to where the individual feels is 'home'?

Then I misunderstood the original question. I thought it was to do with can a country correctly claim that a person comes from there, even if he/she has lived somewhere else for a long time. To that, I said that I thought they could, feelings don't enter into it. If the question was to do where the person feels at home, my answer might have been different.

I currently live in Canada, having moved here in 2003, when I was 32. I'm not Canadian. I could live here for the rest of my life and I would never be Canadian. I could stamp my feet and insist how much I love maple syrup and ice hockey, but I would still not be from Canada. Is it my home? I live here, so yes. Is it where I come from? No, I was born somewhere else. Whether I loathe or love the place I was born has no effect on the fact that that was where I came from.

My son was born in Canada. If we moved to the UK tomorrow, would he become British? No. He could get a pice of paper saying he was a British citizen, but he would still have been born in Canada.

To use a non-human comparison, if I bought a US-made car straight off the producution line, had it shipped to - and drove it solely - in Canada, would that make it a Canadian car? No. It's never been used in it's country of origin. It's never touched US soil outside of the production plant. Is it still American? Yes.

 

[Rabbie]

Alc, I think the key issue in this is where you spend your formative years. After all if someone was born in an airoplane over the atlantic they would still be the same nationality as their parents. After all you moved to Canada when you were 32 so you already have roots in your original country. If you had moved to Canada as a small child you would feel differently.

I think Dan-cat sums it very neatly by linking it to where a person feels at home.

 

[dan-cat]

Then I misunderstood the original question. I thought it was to do with can a country correctly claim that a person comes from there, even if he/she has lived somewhere else for a long time. To that, I said that I thought they could, feelings don't enter into it. If the question was to do where the person feels at home, my answer might have been different.

Sorry my bad. I didn't read the original question properly. I think as Lightwave points out, it comes down to each individual country when it comes to defining an individual belonging to its nation.

I currently live in Canada, having moved here in 2003, when I was 32. I'm not Canadian. I could live here for the rest of my life and I would never be Canadian. I could stamp my feet and insist how much I love maple syrup and ice hockey, but I would still not be from Canada.

I'm not sure how it works in Canada but in the US to become naturalised as a citizen is to become an American. You don't have to give up your other nationality but you must pledge your allegiance to the US above all other nations. Where you were originally born doesn't come into the equation.

Have you checked out the naturalisation process in Canada? Would be interesting to see what pledges etc are required and whether you agree with them.

 

[Alc]

Have you checked out the naturalisation process in Canada? Would be interesting to see what pledges etc are required and whether you agree with them.

I 'll probably never find out, but I am mildly curious. I'll definitey never take the pledge. I decided a while back that I'm not here because I love the place, but because I love my wife and she's Canadian. Given the choice, I'd go back to the UK in a flash.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking at the UK through rose-tinted glasses. I'm well aware of the various problems and faults the UK has, but having experienced and weighed up the advantages and disadvantages of living in both countries, I'd rather be back in Britain.

I think Dan-cat sums it very neatly by linking it to where a person feels at home.

I agree with you both, as far as how the person feels. I wasn't saying that Bob Hope didn't feel American, I'm sure he did. I was taking issue with the suggestion that because someone chooses to live somewhere else, you can no longer say that they come from their birthplace. Bob Hope did a lot of great work for the US. He clearly saw his adopted home as a great place. Good luck to anyone who feels the same. However, he was still from the UK originally, so I feel that anyone who says he was British is correct.

 

[Lightwave]

Ok some kind of consensus..

Physical location is important with an element of culture, and history and at the margins people blur things..

Hence Maple syrup is Canadian
Mitsubishi are seen as Japanese

And some people consider me Trinidadian..!!

 

[dan-cat]

I 'll probably never find out, but I am mildly curious. I'll definitey never take the pledge. I decided a while back that I'm not here because I love the place, but because I love my wife and she's Canadian. Given the choice, I'd go back to the UK in a flash.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking at the UK through rose-tinted glasses. I'm well aware of the various problems and faults the UK has, but having experienced and weighed up the advantages and disadvantages of living in both countries, I'd rather be back in Britain.

It would be fascinating to find out whether this view softens over time. Not that it's wrong. Just that whether or not someone can start to 'feel' the nationality that they have permanently moved into after a time.

We'll have another talk about it in five years time. See where we are.

 

[Alc]

It would be fascinating to find out whether this view softens over time. Not that it's wrong. Just that whether or not someone can start to 'feel' the nationality that they have permanently moved into after a time.

We'll have another talk about it in five years time. See where we are.

I can make a prediction:

If I'm still living and working in Southern Ontario then my opinion won't have changed. If anything, the rose-tinted thing may have kicked in and the various faults with the UK will have diminished drastically in my mind.

If my family has moved somewhere else? I still won't see myself as Canadian, but I may not be as keen to leave.