Repeal and Replace ObamaCare

[NauticalGent]

Reading the American "news" from Italy really makes me smile. I am so happy I am not back home in the thick of this mess!

 

[Frothingslosh]

Yeah, yeah, rub it in.

They're taking health insurance away from tens of millions of Americans, intentionally making it harder for poor people to get health care, and reinstating 'previously existing condition' exclusions and 'high-risk pools' in order to fund the largest tax break corporations and the ultra-rich will have received since Reagan cut tax rates for the rich by half. The Reagan tax cuts immediately resulted in a near-doubling of interest rates and caused the second half of a massive recession; AHCA will likely be WORSE.

The ironic part is that that in order to get it past the House Republicans, it had to be rewritten to be even MORE punitive than it was initially. That really says everything you need to know about the American conservative and their complete, utter, and total lack of anything approaching compassion (or any form of human decency, really) right there. I've known murderers and drug dealers with more care for their fellow man than I see in the vast majority of conservatives.

 

[AccessBlaster]

In less than four years the discussion will be how do we "Repeal and Replace TrumpCare". It's less than 4 years, not the apocalypse.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I've known murderers and drug dealers with more care for their fellow man than I see in the vast majority of conservatives.

Hmmm... I always wondered about that crowd you hang around with, Frothy. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[NauticalGent]

My point exactly. Facebook, AWF, and other online media accounts for about all of my contacts back home. I have friends on both sides of this as well as those who are liked minded as I am and consider both sides equally crazy and idiotic.

Watching how we can allow ourselves to become so polarized on a political stunt, to the point that we compare decent human beings to murderers just baffles and amuses me to no end.

Think I am going to go ask for an extension!

 

[NauticalGent]

In less than four years the discussion will be how do we "Repeal and Replace TrumpCare". It's less than 4 years, not the apocalypse.

What is really sad, is that no one is talking anymore about the feasability of Gov-run healthcare...only which shitty plan contains the most smelly shit.

Madness.

 

[Frothingslosh]

The conservatives of 40 years ago, who were concerned with reining in government spending, protecting individual rights, and maintaining a practical outlook in governance (as opposed to the liberals of the time's tendency toward lots and lots of government programs, legislated morality, and constant pushing for change as fast as humanly possible) have long-since been declared RINO and kicked out of the GOP.

When you regularly see conservatives - on TV, on FaceBook, and in real life - celebrating families being broken up, regularly celebrating poor and elderly people panicking on how they'll survive when AHCA strips them of their health insurance, regularly trying to enforce their perversion of Christianity as the State Religion, regularly condemning LGBTQ individuals for the crime of existing, regularly objecting to helping anyone not them, regularly declaring that those who don't live precisely as the conservative decrees have no right to be able to survive, regularly blaming victims of cops who blatantly murdered said victims, regularly calling for the destruction of the environmental protections that restored breathable air to LA and NYC, regularly not only refusing to lift a single finger to assist anyone else but obstructing anyone who TRIES to do so, regularly celebrating racism, bigotry, and hatred, regularly opposing education, proven science, and improvement of the human condition, all for the sake of greed, hatred, self-centeredness, and resurgent tribalism, when you see American conservatives actively celebrate behavior that can only be described as evil, you get mighty sick of it.

The only conservatives I see these days are assholes out to turn the USA into the CSA, with an extra helping of theocracy and fascism.

No health care for those stupid enough to get old or sick unless they happen to be obscenely wealthy.
No immigrants unless they have the right religion and skin color.
No more treating uppity blacks like they're actual people.
No more liberal-creating higher education for the non-rich.
No more pansy-assed art.
No more protecting our environment from rampant pollution.
No more helping people too stupid or lazy to not be in the highest 10% paying jobs.
No more teaching of facts to children unless those facts are backed by the Bible.
No more LGBTQ people.
No more right to dissent.
No more freedom of speech.
No more freedom of the press.

Those are what American conservatives have chosen to champion over the last 16 years: oppression, bigotry, hatred, theocracy, isolationism, ignorance, and conformity.

I call 'em as I see 'em, and what I see is anything BUT basic human decency.

 

[Frothingslosh]

In less than four years the discussion will be how do we "Repeal and Replace TrumpCare". It's less than 4 years, not the apocalypse.

Honestly, with how massively gerrymandered more and more red-controlled states are becoming and how successful the GOP has been at voter suppression (and how they are doing their level best to block any review at all of possible Russian election interference), even ignoring any political plays like impeaching Trump in 2019 specifically to put Pence in as POTUS, it's not remotely likely that the Dems will win the White House in 2020. Hell, right now Democrats are more focused on raging at each other about who is more evil, Clinton or Sanders. Each side apparently is still trying to convince the other that the other's person is the AntiChrist, even though neither plans to run for POTUS again.

Unless those idiots get their heads out of their asses and realize that 2016 is over, the Dems don't have a chance in hell.

 

[AccessBlaster]

France just rejected populism, after everything they have been through. You could say its a referendum against Trump-ism. If they can do it i'm sure the American far left can get their act together.

Everybody acts as tho this is the end of everything, the "sky is falling". We just got over the Mandela effect and now we have to endure 4 years of the chicken little effect, oh Lord!

 

[Frothingslosh]

I'm talking about the utterly reprehensible behavior I'm seeing out of the rank-and-file, not out of our 'leadership'. Ryan, McConnel, and Trump are all doing precisely what I expected out of them.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I'm talking about the utterly reprehensible behavior I'm seeing out of the rank-and-file, not out of our 'leadership'. Ryan, McConnel, and Trump are all doing precisely what I expected out of them.

No disagreement from me but.......
you left out a few reprehensible people, Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters, Loretta Lynch, not to mention Bill and Hill. "All doing precisely what I expected out of them".

 

[Sofiella]

In my opinion..the best way to replace Obamacare is to enroll everyone with a social security number into Medicare Parts A (hospital coverage) & B (medical coverage), and allow them to enroll in parts C or D (prescription coverage) at their option.
Part C plans are private health insurance that replace Medicare A, B, and usually D with a single plan funded by taking the average amount of claims paid by Medicare per person and giving that amount of money to the plan per person who enrolls in the plan. But hey! who am i to have a saying in anything..sadly.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I see other issues. Frothy, you and I butt heads sometimes on these issues, but I actually liked SOME parts of ObamaCare.

The "individual mandate" part, not so much, because I think it violates the Commerce Clause and John Roberts caved on calling it a tax even though the written record of Congress and some parts of the law itself deny it was a tax.

The concepts of coverage were well defined, things like the preexisting condition coverage and wellness coverage to name a couple. It was the implementation of costs that was not well managed, because it tried to soak folks way too much and didn't address the other side of the cost issue. All they tried to do was make money available to pay, but didn't approach cost control.

To me there is a problem that is solvable but it requires someone to take on big business. The hospitals have incredibly wide ranges of costs for things. There is no uniformity of charges and there are far too many factors to allow prediction of costs. Insurance companies use actuarial studies to determine risk, so when risk is not predictable, I know why they are unhappy.

We have an ongoing study in Louisiana being managed by one of our more enterprising investigative reporters. He is showing us that a diagnostic procedure involving a common colonoscopy might cost as little as US$350 in one area and US$1500 in another area not that far away from the first one.

A big part of the problem is that you never know how many folks will be "riding" the procedure to dip their fingers in the till to get more money. There is no such thing as a "one price covers all (normal) colonoscopies." I remember seeing not less than five separate billings from a hospital when I had minor knee surgery a few years ago. Separate bills for the surgeon for his services, the hospital for (essentially) renting the operating room and recovery room space, the anesthetist, the charge nurse pool, and the lab guys who looked at the specimens taken.

Insurance companies solved PART of this problem by excluding certain hospitals from their plans, but this is a place where egregious behavior HAS to be controlled. If you cannot predict costs, you cannot control risk. I don't suggest that hospitals should be free or that people should not get paid, but there needs to be some level of predictability and some level of sanity on the ever-mounting costs.

Insurance companies fight that the ONLY way they really can, by steering business away from the worst of the perpetrators of inconsistent or egregious billing. They do not have a vested interest in calling out the hospitals for shoddy billing or hidden charges since that might lead to counter-claims from the medical providers. (Pot vs. kettle issues.)

I have NEVER been happy with the billing practices of ANY of the local hospitals. It was one reason why I didn't DARE retire until my health issues were under control despite the physical and emotional stress factors. In a way, I knew the ACA was an attempt to do something necessary. I just didn't like the way it did things because I knew it was one-sided and didn't address the real problem - greed at all levels.

 

[Vassago]

You cannot have provisions for preexisting conditions AND not have mandatory coverage. It won't work. Nobody would get insurance until they need it. You think costs are high now...?

And speaking of costs, does anyone actually believe they will go DOWN? Remember, these are for profit companies. They will not lower their prices for nothing. Even if they are given tax money to compensate for lower rates, it's still our money being used.

 

[dan-cat]

The "individual mandate" part, not so much, because I think it violates the Commerce Clause and John Roberts caved on calling it a tax even though the written record of Congress and some parts of the law itself deny it was a tax.

I really don't get why people have an issue with this basic principle. Very few people have issues over mandatory contributions to say child schooling or car insurance. How is a person's health less important than their education or indeed less inevitable in terms of it's need to be addressed in the course of a lifetime?

 

[lb10001]

My heart goes out to Frothingslosh who's in Flint... you of anyone know what the gov't is capable of doing but chooses not to.

It's a sad state of affairs. How the heck do we unpolarize ourselves and squander the greed of a few and ignorance of many? How? For now, I follow TYT, BBC and just keep trying to stay informed. Spreading FACTS is our only hope... or is it? Not when no one cares or prefers to be blind. Meh!

Good discussion guys.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Of course most people can sympathize with anyone in Flints situation. What we need is more people willing and able to move to the center for the good of the country. The partisan rhetoric from post #7 doesn't help. If all you do is demonize people who make more money or have a better station in life or have a different political view, your life will be filled with frustration.

 

[Vassago]

I agree with a lot of points of his post. The Republican platform has tragically and drastically changed over recent years. Unfortunately, that change is also complex and complete in a sense that the entire party seems to almost never disagree with each other and when they do, the naysayers are shunned from the party as outcasts. That is part of why Trump won. They tried to shun him the same way they did Ron Paul. Unfortunately, he had the financial ability to not be kicked out.

The Democrats are not much better, but at least they tend to have different ideals and opinions. That also leads to their inevitable downfall.

We are in desperate need for a new party to take hold.

 

[NauticalGent]

They tried to shun him the same way they did Ron Paul. Unfortunately, he had the financial ability to not be kicked out...



...We are in desperate need for a new party to take hold.

Right on both accounts ( think you meant to say FORTUNATLEY). It was a huge dis-service to Americans that he did not gain the presidency.

 

[Steve R.]

The Republican platform has tragically and drastically changed over recent years. Unfortunately, that change is also complex and complete in a sense that the entire party seems to almost never disagree with each other ...

The Republican party is in a civil war. They disagree all the time.

In fact, I would content that in terms of the democratic process, the Republican civil war is a good thing since the Republicans are publicly arguing about what they propose which allows the public to make a decision concerning who to vote for.

They tried to shun him the same way they did Ron Paul. Unfortunately, he had the financial ability to not be kicked out.

Ron was badly treated. His treatment really speaks to the fact that many in the Republican party should defect to the Libertarian party.

But, it should also be pointed out that the Democrats shut-out Bernie and used underhand unethical means to manipulate the presidential selection process. Furthermore, the Democrats have super delegates who essentially have the capability and can be used to nullify the votes of the duly elected Democratic delegates to ensure that the Democratic elite can retain control of the Party.

We are in desperate need for a new party to take hold.

That party, I believe exists, in the Libertarian party.

The Democrats are not much better, but at least they tend to have different ideals and opinions. That also leads to their inevitable downfall.

The Democrats are like the Borg, they have a group mind and march in lock-step. All the Democrats howl about (in unison) is identity politics, racism, misogyny, etc.

In terms of this thread, the ACA; the Democrats have proposed nothing (while in power and now) to repair it. Moreover, they have apparently refused (in mass) to work with Republicans. That speaks to the Democrats not having "different ideals and opinions".

Of course the retort will be that the Republicans are refusing to work with the Democrats. But that appears spurious. Based on the public comments that I have heard from Schumer and the lack of any public comments from (non-existing) dissenting Democrats; the Democrats are marching in lockstep to obstruct the Republicans, not work with them in the national interest.

PS: At one Presidential debate, Trump and Hillary were asked if they would accept the election results. Hillary used that opportunity to castigate Trump and claim that not accepting the results would be a "threat to democracy" (paraphrased). Yet that is exactly what the Democrats are doing today. It seems that the Democrats are willing to let the "ship to sink" rather than accept the election results.