Click Farms (2 Viewers)

[The_Doc_Man]

I can probably count on one hand the number of political topic threads I've personally started and I can never remember starting a religious one.

I do not dispute this statement. But participation can occur without being the original poster in a thread.

My posts are almost always attempts to educate. Arguing with people is pointless, especially once cognitive dissonance has set in

In a classroom, repetition is the key to learning. In a public forum, however, it is the repetition of the educational lesson that leads to the appearance of an argument.

There are a couple of trolls who do seem to be able to suck me into these idiotic exchanges but they shall remain nameless.

Oh, do I ever know that feeling - but we have to be aware that yielding to temptation wasn't so good for Adam and Eve either. This forum might not be the Garden of Eden, but it is a home away from home for many of us. We ALL have to learn to step on the brakes now and then... ME included, Pat, because I know there have been times I have hurt more than I helped. It is that point of overreacting that we must all learn to recognize and to step back from it.

 

[Pat Hartman]

thank you for the lecture.

 

[Isaac]

geographical features, schools, etc

Renaming a part of an ocean ?? A bit different than the local school

 

[AngelSpeaks]

Renaming a part of an ocean ?? A bit different than the local school

The part that is mostly part of the US.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Arguing with people is pointless, especially once cognitive dissonance has set in, but I find it utterly impossibly hard to believe that people actually support Hamas' position.

Insertion of political "hot topic" in a thread not related to politics by referencing Hamas in the middle of a different subject.

And we, in turn, find it hard to believe that you cannot seem to separate Hamas from the rest of the Palestinian people

Escalating on a political topic in a non-political thread.

You are basing your opinion of Hamas on "feelings" and false reports and photos rather than any actual facts.

Continued engagement in political topic - although you DID state you were going to back it off after this quoted sentence.

THIS is how things get out of hand. BOTH OF YOU! Let it go. This thread had NOTHING TO DO with the Middle East and their problems. They are trying to make peace. Let's hope it lasts longer than the cease-fire in this forum.

At the minimum, this is "thread-hijacking" and when it takes this political turn, the risk factor goes up. I'm doing this out in the open because folks need to see how it starts. I am also going to edit or delete the posts that led to this exchange.

If anyone thinks I'm being heavy-handed here, remember that Jon has asked us to cool it. I'm just reminding folks that our situation is not what it used to be.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Renaming a part of an ocean ?? A bit different than the local school

Obama or Biden also renamed Mt McKinley back to Denali. Not to mention supporting the tearing down of "hateful" statues. The renaming done by the Dems is always to the determent of our founding fathers who they now consider to be hateful slave owners or to southern Civil War heros. And the Arabs somehow got away with renaming the Persian Gulf to the Arabian Gulf during the last Gulf War. Did you complain about that? You are very willing to be offended by anything Trump does but let the "thing" slide when it is done by someone else.

I don't even disagree with you. I've said several times, that I object to the name Trump chose. Gulf of the Americas would have been all encompassing and included Mexico since Mexico is part of the Americas. But, Trump was not feeling very loving given Mexico's collusion with the cartels in recent years and elected to pi** off Mexico. Petty, but meaningless in the greater scheme of things.

Wonder how many historical figures MLK Blvd replaced when it was all the rage for big cities to "recognize" MLK who the Dems seem to hate these days. Did you object to any of those street names changing?

Place names change all the time, sometimes for positive reasons, and sometimes for petty reasons. If you are going to sit in judgement of Trump over this, maybe you should go back and review a few frequently quoted bible verses.

Let me list just two of those bible verses that way too many people here have forgotten about.

Judge not, lest thee be judged.

Let those among you who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Ah, and the moderator is now our masked censor. Somehow that is even worse than than the Law that all of us would prefer to shelter Jon from.

They've won.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Escalating on a political topic in a non-political thread.

I guess it is OK for someone else to post a political thought. I just can't offer a counter opinion. I get it.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Ah, and the moderator is now our masked censor.

I'm an unmasked censor operating on my own account name. But you might also know me as Richard. I am hiding nothing and that picture that is my avatar is really me (except maybe from a few years ago...)

Pat, I quoted the post in which YOU sneaked in the Hamas reference, which started the fishing expedition that almost hijacked the thread. Isaac took the bait. You responded. I tossed in a reminder and did what Jon said would be necessary - watch the threads for other flare-ups and shut them down.

I will state for the record here and now that I got no pleasure from being heavy-handed for that moment. I am like Jon in that I firmly believe in free speech - but as Jon has pointed out, this forum is no longer quite as free as it once was and we have to acknowledge that. We all have to adapt to the "new normal" until/unless the Reform party comes in and tosses the Online Safety Act into the trash heap of questionable ideas.

Until Jon has selected a moderator's moderator, it is up to all moderators to watch out for topics that get out of hand. I will back down a little now, because the point has been made. But I ALSO think it is on ALL of us to realize that there is a risk here. I reminded you this time. Perhaps next time this type of topic injection happens, we can keep it from heading towards another storm.

If anyone feels I was wrong, tell Jon. Trust me in this limited statement: If Jon thinks I did wrong, he WILL let me know.

 

[Isaac]

I can be a bit of a bait-taker. My bad

 

[Isaac]

But in my defense, I actually might have been mistaken. I did not think that 100% of politics was off the table. I thought we were just supposed to avoid being offensive and violating the OSA. Me saying Pat can't separate this vs. that is offensive per the OSA? I guess count me out as a potential moderator, this isn't making any sense to me at all any more. I thought we were supposed to catch and avoid offensive, racism, phobic-this or that stuff - not all politics. and 'click farms' isn't completely non-political in the first place.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The issue was that my action wasn't about the topic of Click Farms. The thread started to divert back to the same toxic topic that lit the fire under the Politics & Current Events section. If all we do is move an incendiary topic from one thread to another, we haven't addressed the underlying problem. We MUST learn to let go of some topics. I stopped the thread diversion and hated doing it but the point had to be made. Jon killed two threads and then killed the entire Politics & Current Events forum because of the heat being generated from that same diversion topic.

Can we talk about politics? Maybe so, maybe not - and now that the example has been set, maybe I'll go back into a corner for a while and contemplate having performed an unpleasant action on two people I happen to like and respect. But at the time I felt it was necessary.

 

[AccessBlaster]

While taking a break from throwing tea overboard, I started wondering, once the band-aid is completely pulled off and the evil twin is cast into the abyss, can the technical side survive without the evil twin and with AI nipping at its heels?

 

[BlueSpruce]

Can we talk about politics? Maybe so, maybe not

Geez Doc, where does the censoring start and end? I feel compelled to block the Watercooler and all other non-tech AWF forums, and take my constructive and respectful political and religious posts to a different social platform that's not going to give into intimidation by the thought police.

BTW, the post about AWF on the DevHut site has been restored, this time with an addendum explanation by the owner of why the thread was restored:

https://www.devhut.net/the-shuttere...d-the-wavering-future-of-access-world-forums/

 

[AngelSpeaks]

Geez Doc, where does the censoring start and end? I feel compelled to block the Watercooler and all other non-tech AWF forums, and take my constructive and respectful political and religious posts to a different social platform that's not going to give into intimidation by the thought police.

BTW, the post about AWF on the DevHut site has been restored, this time with an addendum explanation by the owner of why the thread was restored:

https://www.devhut.net/the-shuttere...d-the-wavering-future-of-access-world-forums/

AWF is not your enemy. A certain law in a certain country could bankrupt Jon. We need to protect him.

 

[BlueSpruce]

AWF is not your enemy. A certain law in a certain country could bankrupt Jon. We need to protect him.

I never felt AWF is my enemy, but I am not going to let the thought police tread on my rights. Therefore, I will move my personal opinion posts to a different social platform so as to not increase Jon's risk, and only post in AWF tech-related forums until the wheels fall off. I am now going to block all AWF non-tech related forums. Good luck and Good Bye!

 

[AccessBlaster]

I'm going to miss BlueSpruce when I finally get kick off

 

[Isaac]

The issue was that my action wasn't about the topic of Click Farms. The thread started to divert back to the same toxic topic that lit the fire under the Politics & Current Events section. If all we do is move an incendiary topic from one thread to another, we haven't addressed the underlying problem. We MUST learn to let go of some topics. I stopped the thread diversion and hated doing it but the point had to be made. Jon killed two threads and then killed the entire Politics & Current Events forum because of the heat being generated from that same diversion topic.

Can we talk about politics? Maybe so, maybe not - and now that the example has been set, maybe I'll go back into a corner for a while and contemplate having performed an unpleasant action on two people I happen to like and respect. But at the time I felt it was necessary.

I see what you mean Doc
My problem is I've always been the type of person who mostly enjoys conversation about pretty serious topics (which inevitably wander into either something spiritual or something at least partly political), I don't enjoy discussing routers, tensor chips, or the latest iphone screen size. But I will learn to enjoy those things for the benefit of AWF and try to stop taking bait , I promise , though nothing I said was offfensive or phobic I see what you mean about avoid the topic that seems to keep inflaming

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Geez Doc, where does the censoring start and end?

I honestly don't know. The OSA is having the effect as throwing a heavy wrench into a big gearbox. Maybe I jumped the gun on this one, though there are those who agreed that something HAD to be done about the developing problem. Jon doesn't have his "moderator of moderators" and now more than ever, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like it, yet but we had a problem that needed fast action. Made me sick to my stomach to do the very thing I don't think is right - censoring a political discussion. If we believe that history repeats itself, then we had to consider that the conversation was veering towards the same topic that tore apart a whole forum topic, and we can't afford that. I definitely felt a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

I've since DM'd with Jon and we can use the Watercooler but we have to be really careful about argument escalation. When does the censoring start and end? You can trace the start to the posts Jon made regarding the OSA coming into effect. The end? Damn if I know... maybe when the UK Parliament realizes that the OSA is a burden on freedom and repeals it. I'm not holding my breath.