advice on advice (1 Viewer)

neuroman9999

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Can anyone tell me if this would get a negative reaction from someone who does not know who is who on the internet? It is actually for this very reason that I acquired a client from this forum after she downloaded code from a member here that confused the living heck out of her:

advice.jpg
 

The_Doc_Man

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You didn't state it explicitly but your implication is that people who know other languages than you have listed are perhaps less competent. I would treat this as a highly insulting, inflammatory, and inaccurate statement.

As it happens, I don't deal with web-oriented languages. I've always been an internal guy - operating system and device drivers. And compilers, for that matter. Your list of languages wouldn't exist without folks like me, even if I never worked in your preferred languages. And other than perhaps C#, none of those languages you named are suitable for creation of compilers or operating systems.

Logically speaking, your comment about "running cheap companies / websites" is an unfounded and difficult-to-prove assumption. Your comment about "not knowing what they are doing" is also difficult if not impossible to prove. Saying that those folks "aren't the smartest in the world" is also something hard to prove and therefore more along the lines of an assumption. That's 3 of your 5 points right there. I'll grant you the "posted years ago and not recently updated" comment. The 5th comment is at least partly due to the nature of forums. It may or may not be wrong but I believe if it is true that it cannot be considered the fault of the code-poster. So 3 outright erroneous thoughts, one misdirected idea, and one possibly fair comment. I'll give you half credit on the misdirect. On a 0-100% scale you got 30%.

Seems about like your previous percentage.
 

neuroman9999

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So 3 outright erroneous thoughts, one misdirected idea, and one possibly fair comment. I'll give you half credit on the misdirect. On a 0-100% scale you got 30%.
well thank you Richard. perhaps you missed the statement that said:
this doesn't apply to everyone
???

I know you don't deal with web languages, but have you ever noticed what I have pointed out in the words in that image? If you search the internet for VBA help, you can find literally anything. Including windows DLL calls and overly-complex procedures for interactivity with almost any source, internal or external, available to download or copy, for free. Now, if you search the internet for the same type of help and need it in any other language (specifically web languages and/or C/C++/Python/Java), you can bet that you won't find it anywhere for free.

But of course, there are forums for almost anything where you can find help. I mean, I have accounts on 28 different internet forums and I've asked questions on every one of them. So....you tell me Richard. Why are the people in the world, supposedly making money by writing VB/VBS/VBA applications, giving so much away for free? Surely there is a reason.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Asked and answered in your previous incarnation.
 

Uncle Gizmo

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It is actually for this very reason that I acquired a client from this forum after she downloaded code from a member here that confused the living heck out of her:

Ah, yes. I know who you mean. We had a right asshole of a member here, who led people up the garden path all the time. His name was Adam. Fortunately he was banned for being excessively stupid.
 

neuroman9999

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I don't hold anything against you Tony, but I would have assumed that you would have not said anything publicly about this since I told you long ago through the other medium that this had happened and she came to me. And, more than likely you won't see her return because I've won the game. Sorry. That doesn't mean though that she can't still learn from the many good people in this community. I have, plenty of times.
 

The_Doc_Man

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To you it is only a game, Adam, but some of us actually take this seriously. It is a shame that you don't see that. But it is also a partial answer to the question of WHY some of us give away code freely. I originally said "Asked and answered" but I will answer more directly.

To answer, though, I'll have to ask a question of you that might help you understand us, however dimly. I do not draw exact parallels here, but there are some similarities that might help you bring things into perspective.

You are a religious person. This fact is well known. So this will be to help you gain perspective on why we do what we do.

Jesus had knowledge about how people might die but in so doing, go to a better place. Did He SELL this knowledge to others? Or did He give it away freely because He knew they might benefit from it? We know how modern televangelists exhort you to send money so they will pray for you, but why didn't Jesus cash in?

Or consider Ecclesiastes 11:1 - "Cast your bread upon the waters, for after many days you will find it again."

We cast OUR bread of knowledge on the waters (well, ... network) in hopes that we might one day find help from some other source. Because we know that what goes around comes around. We know that if we want help and have been helpful to others, we might more easily get help ourselves. We know that the Golden Rule tells us to do unto others as we would have them do unto us - so we help people.
 

neuroman9999

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Did He SELL this knowledge to others? Or did He give it away freely because He knew they might benefit from it? We know how modern televangelists exhort you to send money so they will pray for you, but why didn't Jesus cash in?

We know that if we want help and have been helpful to others, we might more easily get help ourselves. We know that the Golden Rule tells us to do unto others as we would have them do unto us - so we help people.
your words are very admirable Richard. and I have understood everything you just said perfectly. the only reason that I point out the reality of so much ms access knowledge being given away for free on the internet is because of this:

=> if you give people (the general public, the same general public that think government leaders actually care about them) too much indication that they can get anything for free, when technically they live in a capitalistic system where things *should* be paid for if you want to further your own business, what that results in are people who get stuck in that mindset. and that is probably one of the reasons that, as I said previously, you won't find free stuff in the form of web language resources *anywhere*. Because that stuff is so resourceful and used to sell many products, it SHOULD be paid for. not to mention the fact that the people who use those tools *demand* that their knowledge be paid for. and I agree wholeheartedly with them.

now, there's nothing wrong with giving the basics away for free. I mean, there are millions still trying to catch up to people like you, me and the rest of the experts' knowledge levels here. But you may not realize, is that if you give away free knowledge, time and time and time and time again and again, eventually what you've inadvertently caused is a scenario where business opportunity for access developers like Colin (@isladogs), Tony (@Uncle Gizmo) and others has been completely lost. After all, some of those guys have directly told me that they need more business. So, it's beyond me why some of them post seriously complex algorithms and code routines that SHOULD be paid for! And dare I say again, one of those members inadvertently gave me a new client because she didn't know what she was doing with his free resources.

I certainly respect everyone here for helping people who need it. I mean, heck, I do it all day long to for many people around the world, and with many different languages and platforms. And personally, it has served me very well. 2 days ago, someone on another forum contacted me via PM and asked me if I could assist him in writing some algorithm solutions for a client in China. and of course, I said yes.

and I'm also aware that people of your age, Richard, are probably a little more sensitive and care a little more about helping others for free because you earned your way a long time ago. But remember my friend, there are still people that need to earn a living. Just because your income is secure for life from the Navy doesn't mean that other people have the same security. Follow what I'm saying? Just food for thought, for you, and for other professionals that, IMO, are giving away too much for free and stifling their own growth potential because of it.
 

The_Doc_Man

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If the small amount of help that is given through this forum imperils your job, you are already in the wrong business. Most of the folks here are such novices that we cannot impart sufficient knowledge to them to threaten your income unless you are working at such an elementary level as to be incredibly underutilized. Yet in other posts you have described that you have gotten away from programming in favor of other activities. I might be old but I still recognize a song-and-dance routine when I see one.
 

neuroman9999

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Yet in other posts you have described that you have gotten away from programming in favor of other activities.
I dont' like writing code, but if someone wants to pay me to do it, why would I turn that down? sure I'll do it. after all, it's kind of fun. ridiculously un-necessary, but still quirky and fun. laughable at times too.
 

Isaac

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Now, if you search the internet for the same type of help and need it in any other language (specifically web languages and/or C/C++/Python/Java), you can bet that you won't find it anywhere for free.
Completely untrue. Find any Stack Overflow post about .Net dilemmas, they will very often include references to open source code projects.
The reason you may perceive to be finding less information, is that code written in other languages is usually more complex than simply a one-dimensional, copy and paste-able, simple single block of code...like VBA often is. I think you would know this if it were really true that you worked with various other programming languages. I don't think you do, I think you copy and paste things from Google to try to look smart...or as TDM would say, self-aggrandizement . Your one true technical question, from what you really do work on, finally came out the other day when you asked a question about an Excel userform you were working on..

And that is nothing to be ashamed of, of course - Excel provides a rich depth of possibilities, and is endlessly useful worldwide.
 

neuroman9999

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thanks for the post Isaac. I won't address you because most of it obviously doesn't make sense. If you haven't noticed, I've said a million times I'm not a programmer. I don't need to be. And like Richard, you have no clue what I can do, and I don't care to tell you either. My skillset is much different than yours.

regarding your comment about S/O, the POINT I was trying to make was that free ""stuff"" regarding web languages is not available anywhere for ""beginner"" type people in the form of people giving away their knowledge for free. But of course, those people who need help probably don't have acccounts on places like GitHub where anything and everything is being shared.

Once again, thanks for the comedy. Don't bother to ask for my help. I'm sure you don't need it anyway.
 

Uncle Gizmo

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I won't address you because most of it obviously doesn't make sense

Makes a lot of sense to me!

And I'm a grumpy old man, you - a wet behind the ears "pretender" you've just been exposed!

Proof shortly to follow when you flounce off the forum like a little girl!
 

neuroman9999

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a wet behind the ears "pretender" you've just been exposed!
oh really, Tony? What do you think of the collaboration with this gentleman? I've already explained that I don't need to know anything to do good things for people all around the world. Check this out, and call me a ""pretender"" again. ;) have a good day, Tony! :) (I didn't want to do this, but since you guys are such unbelievers in my abilities, you forced me too).

russian_competence.jpg



russian_competence_2.jpg



and for that other gentleman that thinks I just copy and paste code from google. LOL. What do you think of this, sir?? Have you seen this snippet before in another thread??

https://gist.github.com/Morijarti/b827bc28914b964f9b7c428cf9108a05
 

AccessBlaster

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now, there's nothing wrong with giving the basics away for free. I mean, there are millions still trying to catch up to people like you, me and the rest of the experts' knowledge levels here. But you may not realize, is that if you give away free knowledge, time and time and time and time again and again, eventually what you've inadvertently caused is a scenario where business opportunity for access developers like Colin (@isladogs), Tony (@Uncle Gizmo) and others has been completely lost. After all, some of those guys have directly told me that they need more business. So, it's beyond me why some of them post seriously complex algorithms and code routines that SHOULD be paid for! And dare I say again, one of those members inadvertently gave me a new client because she didn't know what she was doing with his free resources.

I would venture a guess that 90% of whats given away "free" here is readily available for free else-where on the web.

The nice thing about this site is the talented people helping others solve unique issues. That you can't buy at any price.(y)
In theory that might drive biz your way.
 

neuroman9999

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well I appreciate your response but the purpose of me being here is not to steal potential business away from any other professional on the site. The girl I'm talking about is a very unique case. And I didn't even try to steal her she came to me because she was confused as heck
 

The_Doc_Man

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Like attracts like, the blind lead the blind, and the young lady was confused....
 

neuroman9999

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I figured you, grandpa, would chime in about this. keep it to yourself. we don't need to hear your confusion.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Nor did you hear it.
 

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