Are you an atheist? (3 Viewers)

[ConnorGiles]

Connor - regarding this:

Galaxiom did a number on that on the previous page.

Your quote in the following post makes me think of a comeback a friend of mine has when someone tells him they'll pray for him: "And I'll talk to my cat about you. It'll have just as much effect."

I didn't see that post - would you be able to tell me the number

Not a bad come back at all Frothing! Too true!

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Blade - having worked as a chemist (the "Doc" in my name is because my Ph.D. in Chemistry was earned, not gifted), I am intimately familiar with various radioactive and other dating methods. What I am worried about is how you are using junk science articles with clearly religious bias to try to prove points that can't be proven.

Let's be clear also - I am not trying to be "holier than thou" but if you wish to talk about theory, try to understand the scientific use of that term rather than using the colloquial version. Capital-T Theories have gone through the scientific refinement method that starts with a Capital-C Conjecture as the result of someone's observation.

Evolution is a Theory that consists of many parts including but not limited to survival of the fittest, speciation driven by pressure to survive in a given environment, and survival of favorable or benign mutations. We have strong evidence for the truth of the individual elements that make up the current Theory of Evolution. Some of that evidence came from clergy. For instance, the Theory of Genetics was based on the work of the monk Gregor Mendel.

For you to attempt to downplay the Theory of Evolution and the Theory of Radioactive Dating, you have to be able to negate literally a couple of hundred years worth of hard evidence. I respectfully submit that Don Quixote would have better luck with his windmills than you will have with your sadly closed-minded attempts to evade the harsh truths of evolution and radioactive dating.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Further comments to Bladerunner

When you use junk science to claim that you have found evidence of God's existence, you are ignoring your own scripture, which I find to be too sad to laugh at. The so-called Creation Science articles that try to negate hard scientific evidence are actually dangerous to devout religious people. They are so toxic that they have often stopped using the term "Creation Science" and have tried to pass themselves off as ordinary science.

I don't know if the interface here will let me present the whole argument, but I will try right now.

From the Bible, let's take three fairly simple statements attributed to Jesus. First, we have to deal with a fine point. If you are a believer in Jesus as one of the Trinity, then when Jesus speaks, it is also God who is speaking, since they are one. (If you don't believe in the Trinity, this might get trickier, but let's go on.)

Jesus told Pilate: My kingdom is not of this world. But science is ENTIRELY of this world. Why would Creation Science be able to tell us anything about the kingdom of Jesus that ordinary science can't tell us?

Jesus told his followers: Only through faith shall you come to me. This has further been interpreted in light of comments about those who seek knowledge seeking the wrong thing. In essence, if you seek God, you must have faith without the need to prove anything.

Jesus told Satan (in the desert, when Satan invited him to test God): Thou shall not test the Lord thy God. I.e. it is wrong to test because it means you have no faith. You need proof. But faith is belief without the necessity of having proof.

Let's put those together. Creation Science attempts to use methods of measuring stuff in this world to test God (whose kingdom is in another world) so as to gain proof rather than faith. Three actions that Jesus said were wrong.

Suppose that you actually used this science to find a god and prove his existence. Would you worship this god that you just found and proved? Remember, if you can prove the existence of this god, he is clearly not smarter than Man, because you found him. However, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Joseph says "Only through faith..." So which god did you find? If you worship that god, you would be violating the commandment about putting no other gods before Me.

Which entity in the Bible would benefit from such a situation? Satan, of course, wants to deceive you and make you fall away from God's worship. So Creation Science is the work of Satan. Are you SURE you want to rely on the junk science?

 

[Frothingslosh]

I didn't see that post - would you be able to tell me the number

Post 4793
10-char

 

[jeremy.lankenau]

The Doc Man,

You only left out one thing:

*Drop mic*

 

[Galaxiom]

When Jesus died it give the gentiles a way to reach heaven.

So only by having His own son (a manifestation of Himself) killed could God possibly allow gentiles into heaven?

Why did God make this rule?

Blood sacrifice. Savoring the smell of burning flesh. Eternal damnation for thos who will not worship. Punishing all women for ever for Eve's transgression. Punishing children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and great great grandchildren for the sins of their ancestors. Having children torn apart by bears because they made a joke about a man's baldness. Killing a man's family to prove to Satan that He is loved by His followers.

All these things and many more are clearly laid out in the Bible along with His plan to massacre most of the people on the planet yet again.

Your God is a madman who in today's world would be convicted of crimes against humanity.

Meanwhile His followers claim that He is the source of morality. What a joke.

 

[Rabbie]

I'm 6'5 / 6'6 the closest person in my family to my height was my great grandfather who was 6'4 (My Mom and dad are just under 6 foot, Before someone says I'm adopted I'm not.)

And a guy in my work is 6'9!

The increase in average height may not be due to genetic changes but rather to better nutrition. It may be also that better nutrition has allowed genetic changes to manifest themselves without too many negative costs

 

[Galaxiom]

The increase in average height may not be due to genetic changes but rather to better nutrition. It may be also that better nutrition has allowed genetic changes to manifest themselves without too many negative costs

If our development were directly dependent on our genes alone we would not do well in a rapidly changing environment. Hence the expression of genes is controlled by the activation and deactivation through methylation in a process known as epigenetics.

The environment experienced by a woman has a direct effect on the development of the eggs in her ovaries which carry though to the expression of genes at least as far as her grandchildren.

When times are tough we tend towards smaller children for a couple of generations and vice versa. After a couple of extremely well fed generations we can see the average size of the recent generations has grown. My sons are 6'2" and 6'4".

A considerable part of the modern obesity epidemic is driven by the life experiences of a couple of preceding generations.

 

[Bladerunner]

[quote = Galaxiom 4796] The mitochondria is a separate entity that lives in the cytoplasm of the cell. There is no evidence being involved in genetic recombination and it has never been observed to do so. Such notions are speculation by believers masquerading as scientists because they are desperate to make the Biblical account scientifically plausible.

[/quote]

Hum Mol Genet. 2004 Dec 15;13(24):3171-9. Epub 2004 Oct 20.
Heterologous mitochondrial DNA recombination in human cells.
D'Aurelio M1, Gajewski CD, Lin MT, Mauck WM, Shao LZ, Lenaz G, Moraes CT, Manfredi G.
Author information
Abstract

Inter-molecular heterologous mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) recombination is known to occur in yeast and plants. Nevertheless, its occurrence in human cells is still controversial. To address this issue we have fused two human cytoplasmic hybrid cell lines, each containing a distinct pathogenic mtDNA mutation and specific sets of genetic markers. In this hybrid model, we found direct evidence of recombination between these two mtDNA haplotypes. Recombinant mtDNA molecules in the hybrid cells were identified using three independent experimental approaches. First, recombinant molecules containing genetic markers from both parental alleles were demonstrated with restriction fragment length polymorphism of polymerase chain reaction products, by measuring the relative frequencies of each marker. Second, fragments of recombinant mtDNA were cloned and sequenced to identify the regions involved in the recombination events. Finally, recombinant molecules were demonstrated directly by Southern blot using appropriate combinations of polymorphic restriction sites and probes. This combined approach confirmed the existence of heterogeneous species of recombinant mtDNA molecules in the hybrid cells. These findings have important implications for mtDNA-related diseases, the interpretation of human evolution and population genetics and forensic analyses based on mtDNA genotyping.

hey, you are in my field now..... I stated before it was still controversial like global warming. I understand that when you run out of excuses for human evolution and a way to account for everyone in the world, you have nothing left.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

[quote = Galaxiom 4796] You show a photo of a pillar. Once again, if it was from the time of Exodus it would be common knowledge.

You can visit the pillar of salt that was supposed to have come from Lot's wife too. Religious fakes abound.

[/quote]

Oh yes, and that is the reason why it is covered up in a Muslim/Islamic nation. You reasoning is getting worse. I am just showing you findings that are there, have been (according to one of your methods of dating). This film shows quite a bit other things that a good atheist will hit on. But the dating is the crux of the problem and you have no problem with it.................

 

[Bladerunner]

[quote = Galaxiom 4796] Research has shown that Wikipedia is reliable on hard science because any nonsense is removed.

[/quote]

You mean to tell me you have no problem with WIkiped.... Only science wiki is acceptable now? Oh, wow,,,, I guess I misunderstood before. Do not to use it except for science stuff. Did all you other atheist here this, Connor?

No, it is too controversial, as far as I am concerned it is out also.


Blade

 

[Galaxiom]

To address this issue we have fused two human cytoplasmic hybrid cell lines, each containing a distinct pathogenic mtDNA mutation and specific sets of genetic markers. In this hybrid model, we found direct evidence of recombination between these two mtDNA haplotypes.

They first fused two cells so the mitochondria from different lines were located in a single cell.

This process is not something that occurs naturally in humans.

 

[Bladerunner]

[quote = Galaxiom 4796] Not according to prevailing scientific knowledge. All you have read is speculation from believers who have zero evidence to support their view.

[/quote]

Well lets see here. You are saying the Hellium does and could not have become trapped in granites, radiohalos (Polonium) could not have left their signature and "fission tracks" could not have formed. thus all these road maps really do not exist. Or is it, the reason why they are form is a little too close to completely ruling out yours and other atheist speculation on how the universe was formed.

These show the earth cooled in thousands of years and not millions. Well, these happenings are positive proof vs you assumptions that the universe cam be radiodated from a meteorite. A lot of assumptions was used to get what the atheist wanted out of this one.

Rem. Man wrote the booke of the earth and universes age... God wrote the book on how he created it. Not much punkin there. Millions believe you are wrong!

ME too.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

That would be called finding evidence that counter acts previous statements. Here is a massive difference between lack of religion and religion blade. We actually try and prove ourselves wrong and in essence proving religion wrong just comes with the package. Religion just tries and prove science wrong with no thought to their own belief system.

there you go again changing the subject. It is ok for you to quote a mistake but not me------NO????

Blade
\

 

[Bladerunner]

I have no idea what to think on this

We decipher the rough age of the universe via a few methods. One of them being studying the way stars are born, evolve and die. White dwarf stars are a great example as they are what the sun will eventually look like (or to clarify they were once like the sun).

Some of my information was added from this website. You may learn something here blade.

http://stardate.org/astro-guide/btss/cosmology/age_of_the_universe

ALSO you never answered my main question? How do you explain fossils found to be countless years older than your religion claims the universe to be? If dating the fossils is an issue. I think we would have noticed a T-REX walking around a good couple of thousand years ago

[/quote]

Let say mother nature spit ,,,,oh,,,,out how many humans necessary to ward of extinction. Lets say for argument purposes about 5,000 humans. how many of them did we have incest. We know the rulers did. would not want to procreate with the poooor folk. How did mother nature produce a human person in mass> wow. I know you going to say I just don't understand evolution. Your right here. I really do not understand how we got where we are without incest at one time in the past,,,,that is unless nature supplied the 5,000 humans necessary ward off extinction. I might it would have to be in pretty quick order too.

You decipher their rough age of the universe via a few methods and all of them are based on a bunch of assumptions especially radio-dating methods. It would seem the even then there are secular scientist who believe the universe has always been here. Wait....Wait...it is coming..........Oh, they did not use the same assumptions. Laughable at the very least.

Blade

Oh, almost forgot.....The t-rexes.............BUT all of them have carbon -14 in them and I don't have to tell you what this means. Oh, my,,,,, 65 million vs a few thousand.

 

[Bladerunner]

I'm 6'5 / 6'6 the closest person in my family to my height was my great grandfather who was 6'4 (My Mom and dad are just under 6 foot, Before someone says I'm adopted I'm not.)

And a guy in my work is 6'9!

I wonder if this is true for the Japaneese as well. Tradition has it that the people of the islands, living off fish mainly because they had nothing to hunt on an island were smaller in nature. Now, that they have all the beef they want, wonder if they have grown.

Someone said that man could not survive mother natures turns(so-to-speak). How did the Eskimos do it. they learned to live off the land. The cave men previously had a harder time. Genetics is not all based upon mother nature.

If you mate a tall man and a tall mother, you may or may not have tall children. However, somewhere down the line you will have a very tall child. It is not evolution that I was talking about. 1. type we come from monkeys, 2... we grew a thumb to hold something, 3. we are growing to be giants because of evolution.

Doc Man,,,,, you may have a PH_D and I offer congrads on that but genetics is simply genetics. I have had a class or two myself plus a lifetime of seeing the actual changes.

 

[Bladerunner]

Blade - having worked as a chemist (the "Doc" in my name is because my Ph.D. in Chemistry was earned, not gifted), I am intimately familiar with various radioactive and other dating methods. What I am worried about is how you are using junk science articles with clearly religious bias to try to prove points that can't be proven.

Let's be clear also - I am not trying to be "holier than thou" but if you wish to talk about theory, try to understand the scientific use of that term rather than using the colloquial version. Capital-T Theories have gone through the scientific refinement method that starts with a Capital-C Conjecture as the result of someone's observation.

Evolution is a Theory that consists of many parts including but not limited to survival of the fittest, speciation driven by pressure to survive in a given environment, and survival of favorable or benign mutations. We have strong evidence for the truth of the individual elements that make up the current Theory of Evolution. Some of that evidence came from clergy. For instance, the Theory of Genetics was based on the work of the monk Gregor Mendel.

For you to attempt to downplay the Theory of Evolution and the Theory of Radioactive Dating, you have to be able to negate literally a couple of hundred years worth of hard evidence. I respectfully submit that Don Quixote would have better luck with his windmills than you will have with your sadly closed-minded attempts to evade the harsh truths of evolution and radioactive dating.

Thanks for the condescending Don Quixote jib Doc.

I too am a man of science and medicine. As you have, I have had many classes of genetics,etc. including the theory of evolution. You atheist like to talk that evolution produced everything we see in the world today including man from the very start. The very start is where we part company. As far as genetics goes, the changes thru generations are well documented. However, you have to start somewhere?

Now if you want to talk abut why you think man come from a monkey,,,no......lets go back......from that primordial ooze. we can. I think this is conjecture, not even a hypothesis. how say you?

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

So only by having His own son (a manifestation of Himself) killed could God possibly allow gentiles into heaven?

Why did God make this rule?

Blood sacrifice. Savoring the smell of burning flesh. Eternal damnation for thos who will not worship. Punishing all women for ever for Eve's transgression. Punishing children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and great great grandchildren for the sins of their ancestors. Having children torn apart by bears because they made a joke about a man's baldness. Killing a man's family to prove to Satan that He is loved by His followers.

All these things and many more are clearly laid out in the Bible along with His plan to massacre most of the people on the planet yet again.

Your God is a madman who in today's world would be convicted of crimes against humanity.

Meanwhile His followers claim that He is the source of morality. What a joke.

Do you have a son or daughter?/// (A manifestation of yourself). Died for yours and my sins.

Blood sacrifice.......a little better that hilter, stalin, Mao, Po-pot,,,,, No man will do that himself. It is just the ones that believe and die will be reborn and the others, well, I think not. Would you want Hitler in Heaven. But of course you would.

By who's laws would he be convicted. By Man (a god unto himself)

Where did you get your morals,,,Bet it was from a church somewhere in the past. past down generations. In the beginning for atheist,,, just where did you get your morals. When man stepped out of the ocean, where did he get his morals, Like cavemen, warring,,,,,they did not believe in God. could not even speak but they could kill. A good atheist at work.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

If our development were directly dependent on our genes alone we would not do well in a rapidly changing environment. Hence the expression of genes is controlled by the activation and deactivation through methylation in a process known as epigenetics.

The environment experienced by a woman has a direct effect on the development of the eggs in her ovaries which carry though to the expression of genes at least as far as her grandchildren.

When times are tough we tend towards smaller children for a couple of generations and vice versa. After a couple of extremely well fed generations we can see the average size of the recent generations has grown. My sons are 6'2" and 6'4".

A considerable part of the modern obesity epidemic is driven by the life experiences of a couple of preceding generations.

Good to know for the people who are trying to lay GOD! Maybe we should ask they if the diseases humans have a hard time with are from the "the activation and deactivation through methylation in a process known as epigenetics" you spoke of.

Genetics carries a little longer than to the grandchildren.

Again, I wonder if Japan is experiencing this?

It is always someones fault. Blame it on the past. Why then do a lot of Obese stay at McDonalds then on the couch. Have you ever my 600lb life.. check it out.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

They first fused two cells so the mitochondria from different lines were located in a single cell.

This process is not something that occurs naturally in humans.

"Nevertheless, its occurrence in human cells is still controversial". Like everything
atheist put forth to explain our existence is Controversial between you own. Kind of like changing the goal post every year or so when something new is found. Again, is kind of like the fake global warming and all its figures.

Blade