Unless I misunderstand, to be a TRUE Muslim you need to accept the whole book? If I agree with one part of it, I still reserve the right to reject the book as an entire entity if there is one thing I find untrue/unrealistic.
Not only do you need to accept the whole Qur'an there are other conditions that also need to be met.
We have all been given free will. We can accept\reject to our hearts content. We will all know the truth before we die, when we see the angel of death (Azraa'eel) and of course on the Day of Judgement.
Harry Potter leaves from a London train station to go to wizard school. London is real, I worked there. That station exists, I've seen it. Schools exist, I went to one. I still reject the book as being a true story.
Ah the difference with the Qur'an is that its real and it contains the truth and is a book of guidance for mankind. Harry Potter is a fictional character, there isn't a wizard school and the rest are real of course but it's not going to give us salvation in this life or the next.
As we keep pointing out but you refuse to accept, the concurrence of some of our laws with Sharia is purely coincidental.
If man can independently come up with laws that are in the Qur'an, then why do you reject the Qur'an completely? These laws were given to man initially by God in the earlier commandments by the prophets and the authentic Scriptures that existed in the past before the Qur'an was revealed and included in the Qur'an by the same author, God 14 centuries ago. So the laws inherent everywhere around the world ultimately came from God and passed down by individuals whether they believed in God or not.
While murder and theft are crimes in Australia, the sexual behaviour of consenting adults is consider a personal decision. These matters are only crimes in the fascist doctrine of religion.
Again through a lack of knowledge you are wrong. It doesn't matter whether the adults consent or not. That's not the point. According to Sharia they are not allowed to exhibit such behaviour in public for which there is a law even in Australia. Check it out. Hence if these are crimes are fascist, then by implication Australia is a fascist state.
The truth is the concepts behind it are firmly rooted in the domination of women by men based on the misogynistic beliefs of primitive men. It is you that fails to understand because you are incapable of conceiving of anything beyond a book written by a man who was suffering from an recognised cognitive disorder that made him presume that he was communicating with a supernatural entity.
If there is a surplus of women over men, it will to a certain extent result in promiscuity which can affect us as a society. I'm sure that many westerners have suffered this way. You only need to see what it's become in the west and a cry by people to have things changed. Many innocent people have suffered through divorce thru illicit relations. I have known some women who became Muslims as a result of how western men treated them.
Surely it would be best if men who had the wealth to maintain more than 1 family to marry with honour and treat all the wives with equity. If you don't agree with that principle, then again we agree to disagree. Your hatred of Islam has consumed you to such an extent that you fail to see reason.
You demonstrate this by the endless irrelevant quotes denigrating any who choose to believe other than the doctrine of your so called "prophet" and threatening retribution against them.
If you don't accept the Qur'an, why should you feel denigrated! After all you have done enough of that yourself by the language you have used. They may be irrelevant to you but not to me. They have acquired great relevance even though you don't see it.
Here are some other relevant verses.
002.006 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
002.007 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.
So you also accept some of the laws of Australia. If you have independently come to these laws then you must logically (using your version of logic) you must accept that all Australian Laws are not completely wrong.
These laws also state that you you must treat all people, both men and women with the same standards. You cannot punish people in Australia for what you term as adultery.
I never said they were wrong. On the contrary as some of these laws agree with Sharia, then Muslims can live (as can non-Muslims) in these countries and spread the message and introduce other aspects of Islam. You may pooh pah that, but the success of people becoming Muslims may one day introduce news laws particularly based on promiscuity, alcohol and gambling abuse, porn, etc.
People who openly commit adultery, fornication and homesexual behaviour are punished in Australia.
So just as you do not accept Australian law I do not accept sharia.
Nowhere did I say I did not accept Australian law. If the laws agree with Sharia, then of course I agree with Australian law. I was simply pointing out your lack of knowledge in these things.
I reject sharia from its fundamentally fascist foundations. Arbitrary laws based on the psychotic musings of an ancient Arab do not constitute a sound basis for the operation of a democratic society. This is especially so when those arbitrary laws conflict starkly with the values of the society.
The laws were given to us by God. Even those laws given by the Prophet (peace be upon him) are given through God.
Even democratic societies need laws. After all we don't live in a jungle. All societies have to live by some norms which are also part of Sharia. So just as I demonstrated that your complete rejection of the Qur'an is illogical, again your complete rejection of Sharia is also illogical as you live by some of these laws already in Australia. The only way around it is to leave Australia and find a country where you basically do whatever you want without hindrance.
If you want to live by sharia law then either stay in or (more likely) go back to the primitive theocratic societies that prefer it. Most of these societies would still be living in the stone age if it was not for their oil and it would be their stupid fascist misogynist philosophy that kept them there.
I already partly live according to Sharia and how would Islam be spread if all Muslims simply left. Muslim scholars say that Muslims can live in a non Muslim country providing they correct what is wrong with the society. To not do that and subject yourself and your family to a way that is fundamentally wrong would by irresponsible and could affect ourselves and our children.
Considering you mix with Muslim people this is hardly surprising. Obviously you won't actually meet people who have left the Muslim faith at a Mosque.
I have never met such people, although I'm sure there will be some. As I have said in the past we have been given free will. There is no guarantee that a Muslim will die as a Muslim or vice versa. God says
002.132 The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons, and also Jacob, (saying): O my sons! Lo! Allah hath chosen for you the (true) religion; therefore die not save as men who have surrendered (unto Him).
002.133 Or were ye present when death came to Jacob, when he said unto his sons: What will ye worship after me ? They said: We shall worship thy God, the God of thy fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac, One God, and unto Him we have surrendered.
002.134 Those are a people who have passed away. Theirs is that which they earned, and yours is that which ye earn. And ye will not be asked of what they used to do.
003.102. O ye who believe! Fear Allaah as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam.
There are vastly more people who have decided to reject all forms of religion and this is clearly shown in the statistics gathered by the government rather than by your personal anecdotes.
Well the vast majority of the world population are non believers. Muslims have a long way to go. However as Muhammad (peace be upon him) was told by God not to fret over the non Muslims, I won't worry too much as well but just simply try the best I can as I'm supposed to do as a Muslim living in a non Muslim country. Having said that, I often feel that my fellow Muslim brothers\sisters in Islam also need guidance as well. It's going to be a busy time. LOL.
I think you're not understanding Galaxiom though. He's saying he does not care about Islam, does not have respect for it, etc. He's not saying every word in the Qur'an is wrong, he's saying it is beneath his notice, essentially.
I understand perfectly well. Galaxiom is not the first of his type that I have come across and probably not be the last.
Using your logic, we could say that no one can completely disregard Hitler's Mein Kampf (sp?) as a moral compass, as I am sure there is something in there with a redeemable quality.
I have read part of Mein Kampf, but never managed to complete it, which I will do some day, insha-allaah. But yes I'm sure there were some redeemable bits in it, although I can't remember what they were.
And what date, according to you, is "the time of Adam"? And why did you put apostrophes around people?
God does not provide us with a date, so I can't say. I placed apostrophes to indicate that I was not referring to humanoids before Adam (peace be upon him).
More importantly, Islam as it is commonly known, did not exist before Muhammad introduced it. Before that people certainly did exist. And there are clear differences between Islam and other major world religions, as well as non-belief.
Adam, you are fundamentally wrong there, but I don't blame you as many Muslims make this same common mistake. Adam (peace be upon him) was a Muslim who gave exactly the same message which was to be obedient to the one God.
7. Who made good everything that He has created, and He began the creation of man from clay (tiyn).
8. And made his progeny (nasl) from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised (due to the fact that the liquid passes through the urinary tract).
9. But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His Spirit (Gabriel). And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!
Qur’an - Surah as-Sajda (The Prostration) 32:7-9 See also 16:4, 18:37 and 22:5.
28. When thy Lord said to the angels: I am going to fashion a man (Adam) from clay, from moulded mud;
29. When I have harmoniously fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit (Gabriel), …
Qur’an - Surah al-Hijr (The Rock) 15:28-9
“(God) is the One Who fashioned you from a single person and from that (person) created his wife.
Qur’an - Surah an-Nisaa’ (The Women) 4:1
19. “O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression.”
20. Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said: “Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live for ever.”
21. And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.
22. So by deceit he brought about their fall: when they tasted of the tree, their shame became manifest to them (their private parts which prior to this incident were hidden from them), and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: “Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?”
23. They said: “Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost.”
24. (Allaah) said: “Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood, - for a time.”
25. He said: “Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last).”
26. O ye Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame, as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, - that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allaah, that they may receive admonition!
27. O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.
Qur’an - Surah al-A`raaf (The Heights) 7:19-27 See also 2:30-6, 2:120-23 and 20:121-1.
Compare Genesis 3:1-15, 23.
So, while there was millions of people living in the world, and none of them had ever heard of Islam, when they died, did they go to hell according to your religion for not being followers of Islam?
There never was a people without a Warner having lived among them’ 35:24
We would never visit our wrath (chastise any community) until We had sent a Messenger to give warning’ 17:15
040.078 Verily We sent messengers before thee, among them those of whom We have told thee, and some of whom We have not told thee; and it was not given to any messenger that he should bring a portent save by Allah's leave, but when Allah's commandment cometh (the cause) is judged aright, and the followers of vanity will then be lost.
As another question of curiosity, and I hope this is not culturally insensitive, but as you seem to be a very devoted follower of Islam, and proponent of sharia, why do you live in the UK?
Adam I am a sinner, but I try my best. The fundamental laws in the UK follow Sharia to a certain extent. Not ideal but I can practise my faith without any let or hindrance. I pray at the correct times at work and no one has ever said anything to me regarding this as of course be the case in a Muslim country. I was born in the UK 54 years ago so it's not easy to just leave as my children live here as well. Not sure whether there are any countries which fully implement Sharia. For example, in Sharia the head of a Muslim state is responsible for providing basic necessities such as food, clothing and shelter. I emanate from Pakistan which is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Does the present Pakistani leadership take responsibility in this way for their citizens? I think not. Don't get me wrong, there are many good people in Pakistan who do good towards to others, but at state level it's a bit of a disaster. The system of Zakah allows Muslims who hold wealth for 1 lunar year to voluntarily give 2.5% to the poor. Similarly in the UK we have the welfare state, which in a sense is following the principles of Zakah although of course they are unaware of this.
