Are you an atheist? (2 Viewers)

[Frothingslosh]

I very much doubt that Blade will even acknowledge Doc's post (#5246) because he is like a child shouting gibberish lest he hears something intelligent that contradicts his precious notion of "eternal life" through subservience to the anachronism that is the Bible.

Underneath he is utterly terrified that it could all be a hoax, which of course it is.

Of course he won't. We're talking here about a man who literally believes that Liberals have consciously signed on with Satan and are all knowingly and willingly part of a great anti-American, anti-Christian conspiracy. Who believes that the only reason to not believe as he does is because you've chosen to side with Satan. Who is convinced that any reasonable person will immediately side with him in all things if he simply quotes enough Bible verses at them.

Logic is his kryptonite.

 

[Galaxiom]

.....Who is convinced that any reasonable person will immediately side with him in all things if he simply quotes enough Bible verses at them.

Scientific investigation has shown that believers inevitably presume that their God's beliefs are aligned with their own.

When subjected to influences that shifted their prejudices (how that was done I am not quite sure), the believer's perception of their God's attitudes shifted to match their own.

No surprise really since any reasonable person could only conclude the declarations of supposed moral concepts in the Bible (or Qu'ran) are clearly nothing more than the ill-considered prejudices of their authors.

Religion is the pathetic justification for attitudes that cannot be backed by intellect. Throughout history the institutional response to confrontation of their prejudice has been murder. This response was ultimately codified in the concept of eternal suffering in Hell for those who failed to comply with the doctrine.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Not just 'was' - *IS*.

We can't go more than a few months without yet another atrocity committed due to someone's 'Christian' beliefs requiring non-believers to die for the crime of not following the murderer's beliefs.

I'd post a list of examples from the last ten years, but it would take all day. Google, however, shows a truly ridiculous number of examples.

 

[Vassago]

The cake was a special cake for Their wedding!

I guess now is as good as time to hash it out. Your argument above is going to be the same argument when a same-sex couple wants to be married in a Church (any church). YEs,,,,,,,So this is just a prelude to what is coming!

It was a standard cake they would have offered to any other couple. There was nothing inherently special about it.

 

[Vassago]

'

I guess you and the other liberals had rather keep everything quite so nobody will know!>........ What is wrong here,,,,,,,,,, really transparent aren't we.

It goes to trial in Colorado,,,,,,,guess we will just have to wait and see. Of course we already know the outcome with a frickin liberal judge and all. Its ok,,,,,,This too was preordained.

What are you even talking about? :banghead:

 

[Vassago]

Blade, here is the problem. I actually want to think of you as a nice guy, well-meaning and reasonably intelligent. The difficulty is that I (and many others on the forum, given their responses that I have seen) find it difficult to deal with you because of what I see as religiously obsessive behavior. That obsession makes it difficult for us to have any fruitful discussions with you on subjects indirectly related to Biblical admonitions - because you won't consider that some of the Biblical stuff is just flat outdated and outmoded. Obsession tends to do that, and those who are obsessed never see it in themselves, only in others.

A more modern viewpoint on individual rights suggests that men and women are equal in the eyes of the law. If you compare that to the Bible, you see that the Bible suggests that the man is "lord and master" of his house, with explicit descriptions of how and when he should beat his wife when she does not agree with him. Issues like a man marrying his deceased brother's widow also come into play. Slavery is condoned in the Bible but not in more modern ways of thinking about human rights. Can you not see that the Bible's viewpoint is out of date? Philosophy of human rights has changed - but the Bible has not.

The problem, of course, is that you won't entertain the obsolescence of those parts of your "Good Book" because you fear what ELSE might be shown to be meaningless or outdated. And after that, your Good Book would no longer be so good for modern times. Of course, ANYTHING that stagnates tends to fall by the wayside anyway, but you can't see the truth of that concept because your Biblical obsession gets in the way.

I have to admit that it took me a long time to reach my current viewpoint. I was raised as Methodist and believed for a long time - but during a family crisis, I turned to the Bible for help - and found none. I looked for comfort - but there was none. I looked for answers - but they were sorely absent. The Bible did not stand up to critical scrutiny, and in that time of crisis, my own beliefs were not enough to prevent me from reading the Bible critically. It doesn't stand up to critical analysis. All the answers were of the form, "We are not meant to know the mind of God" (or the plans, intentions, etc.) Translation: I can't tell you why something bad happened and don't think I will ever know why.

That family crisis was when I found that my thinking needed to evolve to match modern times and my then-current reality. That was when I realized it was time to let go of that old way of thinking. It was holding me back from being my own person.

Believe it or not, some Buddhism (particularly but not exclusively) of the Zen variety was most helpful. Don't ask "WHY" on cosmic questions because such things don't need a reason. They just are what they are, one with their own nature.

Trust me this much - it was not an easy transition to let go of Methodism. I had to learn to forgive a lot of people for propagating the lies of religion, and the key to that forgiveness was the realization that they had not seen through the lies themselves, so were only repeating what they had been taught as children. It is for that reason that I don't hate you, Blade. You are simply repeating what you were told without critically reviewing it first. And for that I can forgive you, for I have been there myself.

Very well put and intelligent post, as usual.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Blade,

I'll even concede that some of the ideas of the Bible are actually great ideas for life. Be forgiving; be generous; be patient; be kind - all of these jump out as wonderful principles that we could use in greater proportion for everyone.

The stories and parables of the Bible give great lessons, too. For instance, we learn from the story of David and Goliath that we should "keep our eyes on the prize" if we wish to reach our goals. From the parable of the sower and the seeds, we learn that we should treat people as individuals and not expect conformity. We know from the story of the Prodigal Son that we should recognize the possibility that people can make mistakes and we must give them a chance to return to their loved ones after they learn the error of their ways. I'm sure you could supply a few more but I was just giving examples.

The biggest issue I have with the Bible is its insistence on a mystical, magical, or miraculous (take your pick) father-image in some unknowable realm called Heaven. The problems engendered by that part of the Bible are simply overwhelming because of the totally impossible implications associated with that belief. Further, even though the Old and New Testaments both claim to follow the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Joseph, we see two totally different Gods. One is narcissistic, petulant, obsessive, jealous, unforgiving, and unyielding. The other is trying to convince us that He is forgiving and loving - yet again, if we don't play the game His way, we get sent away forever. Yet in the time represented by all of Eternity, our measly little 70 years of life represents the barest flicker of existence - and we are going to be condemned to eternal damnation for our actions in an insignificant fraction of eternity?

It is no small wonder that ISIS, who also worships the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Joseph, must use violent force to keep their people in line. The USA culture helped to insulate us from that level of violence for the most part, though we could talk about Waco or the perversions perpetrated on Matthew Shepard or several other religious groups whose thrust is based on continual threats of eternal isolation. (If you won't play ball by my rules I'll take my ball and go home...).

 

[ColinEssex]

Of course he won't. We're talking here about a man who literally believes that Liberals have consciously signed on with Satan and are all knowingly and willingly part of a great anti-American, anti-Christian conspiracy. Who believes that the only reason to not believe as he does is because you've chosen to side with Satan. Who is convinced that any reasonable person will immediately side with him in all things if he simply quotes enough Bible verses at them.

Logic is his kryptonite.

Would it be fair to call Blade a "troll"? ie one who says things to antagonise and stir up others for the fun of it?

Apparently, I am a troll for stirring up Americans, I can't see that there's much difference except that I get threatened with a lifetime ban for no reason by an enthusiastic megalomaniac mod.

Col

 

[Frothingslosh]

A troll such as yourself does what he does in order to piss people off.

Blade very obviously believes what he is spouting.

There is a gigantic difference between being misguided and just being a jerk.

 

[Bladerunner]

Would it be fair to call Blade a "troll"? ie one who says things to antagonise and stir up others for the fun of it?

Apparently, I am a troll for stirring up Americans, I can't see that there's much difference except that I get threatened with a lifetime ban for no reason by an enthusiastic megalomaniac mod.

Col

and I thought you were a good guy,,,,,,, I guess not someone to cover ones back.

 

[Bladerunner]

It is no small wonder that ISIS, who also worships the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Joseph, must use violent force to keep their people in line. The USA culture helped to insulate us from that level of violence for the most part, though we could talk about Waco or the perversions perpetrated on Matthew Shepard or several other religious groups whose thrust is based on continual threats of eternal isolation. (If you won't play ball by my rules I'll take my ball and go home...).

Doc, I am sorry that you associate Christianity with ISIS and the Islamic religion. It is plain to see the difference and the threat it presents to the world. A man of your intellect should separate these two religions from each other but alas,,,, you are grouping it with Christianity. Whose heads have we cut off in the last century.. that is when socialized civilization started instead of being barbarians , is it not?.

For all those out there, my idea of a liberal(s) are those people in this country that Hate this country in its present form, those that hate the people who do not agree with them. ( I'll call no names out here although that does not stop the liberals on these threads from doing so). and those people that want socialism (anything goes) and promotes a Big Nanny government, instead of Capitalism or entrepreneurship.

This will be my last posting on this forum. I simply have burnt out and really just don't care if any of the atheist on this water cooler makes the right choice or not. As far as the Agnostics such as yourself Doc, you should be able to separate those in the church from the right Choice. You know the difference and yet decide to forsake him. Your BAD!

I ask Rabbie (hope I spelled your name right this time) to remove my profile from the forum completely and immediately. Should I need the expert advice of the excellent moderators here, I will do so as a guest, if allowed.

One last thing, Good luck to all of you and I hope I have given you some food for thought in amongst all of the hatred that is present on this thread. I really do hope you make the right choice. To the moderators, I appreciate your help and appreciate even more your allowing me to bring a little bit of truth about Jesus and the eternal life that is available to all who ask to your Atheist thread.

"Say Good Night Gracie"


BLADE

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Blade, good luck as you go your separate way from us. (That is an honest wish.)

I actually DO know the difference between ISIS radicals and Christian radicals. It is a combination of two things called geography and the human rights recognized by the governments in those geographic areas.

In the Bible after the Exodus, wasn't it the sons of Ham who became the fathers of Islam? I compare the Muslims to Christians because Muslims were among the first schisms from the "Old Religion" of Moses and the Levites. Christianity is yet another schism from Judaism, slightly more recent than Islam, because of the advent of a young rabbi who rejected some of the outmoded attitudes of the Sanhedron in Jerusalem. (There is a certain level of irony there, that Jesus tried to evolve the way of thinking of the Jews, but nobody since then wants to evolve the thinking of Christians.) Islam is actually older but their religious leader came later in the form of the prophet Mohammed (and in respect to our Muslim friends, I add "praise be unto him").

Blade, though you might not choose to reply, I will state that I have known many good Muslims and many good Christians in my 65+ years on this Earth. I've also know some bad members of each group. You know what they have in common? Human nature, the tendency to form isolated groups for emotional comfort and to exclude others to increase a sense of security. Let's see, that tendency is ... about 6 million years old among Hominids and a bit older than that in other species.

 

[Vassago]

Doc, I am sorry that you associate Christianity with ISIS and the Islamic religion. It is plain to see the difference and the threat it presents to the world. A man of your intellect should separate these two religions from each other but alas,,,, you are grouping it with Christianity. Whose heads have we cut off in the last century.. that is when socialized civilization started instead of being barbarians , is it not?.

How do you associate the entire Islamic religion with ISIS? They are not even close to the same thing either. Do you not support American Muslims? What about the ones that were in the towers during 9/11? What about the ones who fight in the US military? Certainly they are worth something to you. I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate being compared to ISIS as they are fighting them.

Not to mention 1/4 of the world identify as Muslim. Can you imagine if they were all terrorists and extremists? The world would be a much more bleak place. Obviously, they are not.

Christian extremists still exist. They may not behead people, but they do still use their religion to commit crime.

For all those out there, my idea of a liberal(s) are those people in this country that Hate this country in its present form, those that hate the people who do not agree with them. ( I'll call no names out here although that does not stop the liberals on these threads from doing so). and those people that want socialism (anything goes) and promotes a Big Nanny government, instead of Capitalism or entrepreneurship.

Well, then by your definition, I'm certainly not a liberal. I don't hate this country. I hate some of the directions it's taken that have destroyed the values this country has held for centuries: The things that have made us go from a respected country to laughing stock in the face of much of the world.

I believe strongly in the principals of helping people. I believe in the Constitution, ALL of it, I don't nitpick. I believe in the Statue of Liberty, which certainly has a strong symbol of helping those in need, not turning them away and closing borders to the suffering like so many seem to want today, never mind what that would do to our economy. I believe in helping the suffering in our own country. Unlike what Faux news wants you to believe, very few people using government assistance are the drug-addicted/using, lazy, etc... Check the widening distribution of income. The middle class doesn't even exist anymore. Capitalism in its current form is failing, although it started wonderfully.

I don't think that is the definition of socialism...

This will be my last posting on this forum. I simply have burnt out and really just don't care if any of the atheist on this water cooler makes the right choice or not. As far as the Agnostics such as yourself Doc, you should be able to separate those in the church from the right Choice. You know the difference and yet decide to forsake him. Your BAD!

I'm agnostic. I just can't believe in the hypocricy of "The Holy Bible." God made Man, Man is imperfect, yet man wrote the Bible. How do we know they didn't get the message wrong? Then, they translated it many different times to suit their needs of the time. The book is hardly in it's original form and certainly has lost some clarity over time. Didn't you ever play telephone in school? Things always get changed the more something is rewritten, especially when translations occur where words could have more than one meaning or not even exist in the other language.

At any rate, I'm sorry to see you go.

I ask Rabbie (hope I spelled your name right this time) to remove my profile from the forum completely and immediately. Should I need the expert advice of the excellent moderators here, I will do so as a guest, if allowed.

Two things.

1. We will not remove your profile completely. We cannot.
2. You cannot post as a guest. You must create a profile to post.

One last thing, Good luck to all of you and I hope I have given you some food for thought in amongst all of the hatred that is present on this thread. I really do hope you make the right choice. To the moderators, I appreciate your help and appreciate even more your allowing me to bring a little bit of truth about Jesus and the eternal life that is available to all who ask to your Atheist thread.

"Say Good Night Gracie"


BLADE

You come into an "atheist" thread, you must have understood there would be some holes poked in what you post. I'm sure as frustrating as it has been for you, it's been equally frustrating to many on here.

In the end, just remember, it's only the internet. The internet cannot hurt you. Take a break! I've disappeared for over a year before. Sometimes we need it.

 

[ColinEssex]

This will be my last posting on this forum.


BLADE

Perhaps now we can have some discussions that don't turn to religion or guns. Plus maybe, we or I won't get any more creepy stalker like PM's telling me what to do with me, my life and my wife - like he knows.

It's all too easy to tell others how to live their life especially if you are a self righteous closed minded religious freak. That's the best way to alienate people against you.

Col

 

[spikepl]

OMG (!) I'd have loved to see this one battle it out with that other religious freak, Aziz-something, about whose imaginary friend's got the biggest dingeling, or whatever it is that seems significant to them.

Other than that, I'm still awaiting a signal from the Big Chicken in the Sky.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Spike - he did, to a point, but both of them reserved their venom primarily for the atheists and agnostics. The discussions were summer of last year, IIRC, so we're talking 50-75 pages back.

I'll try to remember to PM God on Facebook for you when I get home tonight.

 

[spikepl]

Ah OK - I missed all that fervour, apparently. Say hello to her on FB for me, thx.

 

[Frothingslosh]

The one on FB is definitely a guy. He's the one behind all the God Loves Gays billboards that keep popping up.

 

[spikepl]

That's another mystery for me. Guy or Gal or sexless Chicken? If neither is going to use their "equipment" then what exactly is the point having it?

 

[JoeyJoystick]

100% Atheist

Hi All,

Interesting reading on a sensitive subject. Here my opinion.

I would like to approach the whole issue from a completely different angle. I think that when we understand why we have religions that we also understand and agree that there is no god. Call it an opinion, a theory or anything you feel comfortable with, but this is how I feel about the subject. Alternatively, you can of course dismiss the whole idea also.

So here the big questions..

Where does religion come from?

Let's go back some 20,000-50,000 years ago. We were hunters and gatherers. We started to live in small tribes and settle. We started to communicate by voice. We started to live in a single place. A very dangerous move because we were not following the food supply anymore, but we started to create our own food supply. A lot of unknown variables.

At times people were scared and had reasons to be scared too. Some people in the community were smarter than others though and realised that fear could potentially break up the community. let's refer to them as the medicine men. People with respect from the community. For these communities to work there had to be unity. So when people were scared of the thunder and lightning the elderly would relax them by telling them that this was the god of thunder. And when a raft was lost at sea it was because the god of the sea was angry. Of course a good catch was also attributed to the god of the sea. These explanations were necessary to keep the village together and united.

At a later stage when the societies people lived in got larger and civilisation got more advanced the status of these medicine men also got elevated to a higher level. Something we can relate to today as prophets or even half-gods. Some examples; Jesus, Mohammed, Ghandi and even the King of Thailand today can be referred to as a half-god I think. These people had good visions and ideas how to make our society better. How to make us better people. This was originally the idea and the intention.

I think we can all relate to dreams/visions we have had in the past about good or bad things that had happened or may happen in the future. We just did not write them down and did not tell the people around us about it.

Sadly, the none-violence approach of many of these people has quickly been misinterpreted. God has been used as an excuse to keep control over the people and this even goes as far as making sure that the masses simply did not get an education to make sure that they were easier to control.

The analogy I will make here is a bit odd, but; Just like unions and Greenpeace; religion has had the best of times, served its purpose, but is way outdated now and the people running it have lost track of the original purpose of what it was all about. Surely this has got nothing to do with a god as an entity that created us all and keeps a level of control over our past, present and future life.

The problem we are facing is that the nature of people is that we like to hold on to what we have and what we know because it makes us feel secure. Changes in our lives are scary and is something that the majority will try very hard to avoid.

Holding on to the past is what stops us from moving forward.

So for me no religion.

note: I have been raised as a catholic. And I do appreciate my education in norms and values which in my case is because of the catholic background of my parents. I am aware that this can of course also be done without a religious background and sadly we also see around us that many religious people do not live by the values and standards that their religion preaches.

Anyway, just my point of view. May be a bit odd, but I personally believe there is a lot of truth in the above.

Joost (Joey)