Are you an atheist?

[Mike375]

Explain your logic behind that definite statement?

With an atheist there are no "ifs or buts" and ditto for born agains and the like.

 

[Mike375]

Who in this thread has claimed that they are 100% sure that the answer will come from physics? The only thing I have said is that I believe the answer will not turn out to be supernatural.

Based on this thread I think Rich is the only atheist.

You are agnostic. My version of the highlighted section is....is that I believe the answer will turn out to be supernatural.

 

[Rabbie]

Based on this thread I think Rich is the only atheist.

You are agnostic. My version of the highlighted section is....is that I believe the answer will turn out to be supernatural.

I think it is very arrogant to tell other people what their belief system is.

If someone says they are an atheist then they are an atheist. If they say they are agnostic then they are agnostic. If they say they are Christian then they are Christian. If they say they are Muslim then they are Muslim. and so on.

It is not for outsiders to say what someone else is.

 

[Mike375]

I think it is very arrogant to tell other people what their belief system is.

I said "I think Rich is the only atheist"

If someone says they are an atheist then they are an atheist.

So meeting the definition is not important?

It is not for outsiders to say what someone else is.

This is a discussion forum. If somone wants to say they are an atheist when they all allow for possibilities of a supernatural then by definition they are not an atheist. Of course if they want to call themselves an atheist that is fine but again, this is a discussion forum.

 

[Mike375]

PS,

I am not 100% but I think anyone who supports God (as in one god) and only worships that one god is a Muslim from an arabs' perspective. Thus Christian, Jews and Islamers are all muslims.

 

[Rich]

Rich hasn't made any statement to that fact or clicked on the poll, try again

 

[Mike375]

Rich hasn't made any statement to that fact or clicked on the poll, try again

You have expressed that you have zero belief in the possibility of a supernatural.

 

[Rabbie]

I think it is very arrogant to tell other people what their belief system is.

I said "I think Rich is the only atheist"

That implies that you are saying that everyone else who has said they are atheist are in fact agnostics

If someone says they are an atheist then they are an atheist.

So meeting the definition is not important?

Whose definition? Your definition or their definition. If you do a google search for "Atheist definition" you will find a lot of definitions

It is not for outsiders to say what someone else is.

This is a discussion forum. If somone wants to say they are an atheist when they all allow for possibilities of a supernatural then by definition they are not an atheist. Of course if they want to call themselves an atheist that is fine but again, this is a discussion forum.

I know this is a discussion forum. What else do you think that we think it is? I find that discussions are more productive if you listen and respect the views of others. You are certainly miscategorising me. Just because I have said I would change my mind in the face of evidence does not mean I believe in possibility of that evidence being forthcoming. I do not believe in God or supernatural beings. I do not claim to have all the answers. What's your problem??

 

[Rabbie]

PS,

I am not 100% but I think anyone who supports God (as in one god) and only worships that one god is a Muslim from an arabs' perspective. Thus Christian, Jews and Islamers are all muslims.

Islam requires more than the belief in one God. It also entails belief in Muhammad as the the Prophet. The Koran recognises Judaisn and Christianity as separate religions so I think you are mistaken .

 

[Mike375]

Islam requires more than the belief in one God. It also entails belief in Muhammad as the the Prophet. The Koran recognises Judaisn and Christianity as separate religions so I think you are mistaken .

What has that to do with my posting. Arabs recognise Chrsistians, Moses and others as muslims. A muslim is about worshipping one god. Islam, Christain and Judaism are obvioulsy different religions.

 

[Mike375]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike375
I think it is very arrogant to tell other people what their belief system is.

I said "I think Rich is the only atheist"

That implies that you are saying that everyone else who has said they are atheist are in fact agnosticsQuote:

That is correct, I think he is the only true atheist on the thread.

If someone says they are an atheist then they are an atheist.

So meeting the definition is not important?

Whose definition? Your definition or their definition. If you do a google search for "Atheist definition" you will find a lot of definitions

The usually accepted definition of an atheist is a total lack of belief in a supernatural. If someone does not have a total lack of belief in a supernatural then they are in "the don't know for sure" area and hence agnostic.

Quote:
It is not for outsiders to say what someone else is.

This is a discussion forum. If somone wants to say they are an atheist when they all allow for possibilities of a supernatural then by definition they are not an atheist. Of course if they want to call themselves an atheist that is fine but again, this is a discussion forum.

I know this is a discussion forum. What else do you think that we think it is? I find that discussions are more productive if you listen and respect the views of others. You are certainly miscategorising me. Just because I have said I would change my mind in the face of evidence does not mean I believe in possibility of that evidence being forthcoming. I do not believe in God or supernatural beings. I do not claim to have all the answers. What's your problem??

I don't have a problem, it is you who gets uptight

 

[Rabbie]

What has that to do with my posting. Arabs recognise Chrsistians, Moses and others as muslims. A muslim is about worshipping one god. Islam, Christain and Judaism are obvioulsy different religions.

To quote from Wikpedia "Most Muslims accept as a Muslim anyone who has publicly pronounced the Shahadah, which states, "There is none worthy of worship except God, and Muhammad is His Messenger." Currently, there are an estimated 1.4 billion Muslims, making it the second largest religion in the world.[5]" so it seems that you need to accept Muhammad as the Messenger of Allah to be a Muslim. I think this excludes most Christians that I know.

 

[Rabbie]

Mike, you are the one who is telling the people who voted for Atheist that they are wrong. That is still arrogance on your part.
Definition of Atheism: "Atheism, as an explicit position, either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects theism. When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities, alternatively called nontheism."

So in that sense I am an Atheist.

 

[Mike375]

Wiki

"Muslims believe that there is only one God, translated in Arabic as Allah. The Qur'an describes many Biblical prophets and messengers as Muslim: Adam, Noah (Arabic: Nuh), Moses (Arabic: Musa) and Jesus (Arabic: Isa) and his followers. The Qur'an states that these men were Muslims because they submitted to God, preached his message and upheld his values."

The first I heard of it was a couple of weeks ago on a radio show where two Islam Arabs called in to the show and said that strictly speaking a muslim was a worshipper of one god and not of any representatives.

 

[Mike375]

Mike, you are the one who is telling the people who voted for Atheist that they are wrong. That is still arrogance on your part.
Definition of Atheism: "Atheism, as an explicit position, either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects theism. When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities, alternatively called nontheism."

So in that sense I am an Atheist.

But we form our opinions on such subective topics against our own measures. For example, a "born again" does not regard as Christian a Catholic who attends Mass each Sunday. That is not arrogance on the part of the born again.

Atheism, as an explicit position

 

[Rabbie]

But we form our opinions on such subective topics against our own measures. For example, a "born again" does not regard as Christian a Catholic who attends Mass each Sunday. That is not arrogance on the part of the born again.

Atheism, as an explicit position

That is a matter of opinion. I would regard it as arrogance on the part of the "born again" to deny the christianity of the catholic in your example. I know "born again" catholics so I can't see them taking this view.

It is certainly arrogance on your part to tell me what my beliefs are. I could argue convincingly that since you have stated you do not accept a bible god but merely believe in the possibility of a supernatural being with no interest in you or this planet that you are are in fact an atheist but I feel it would be arrogant of me to force my beliefs and definition on you.

Perhaps you need to be a little less dogmatic and accept other peoples definitions of what they believe.

 

[Darth Vodka]

Someone called me a product of Hitlers youth

awh, like the pope?

 

[Mike375]

I could argue convincingly that since you have stated you do not accept a bible god but merely believe in the possibility of a supernatural being with no interest in you or this planet that you are are in fact an atheist but I feel it would be arrogant of me to force my beliefs and definition on you.

If you think I am an atheist that is fine by me. I am not an atheist by my definition or measure but if I am an atheist by your definition or measure I have no problem with that.

If you think (or say) I am an atheist I welcome your opinion. This is a subjective topic.

 

[Darth Vodka]

Well I guess that is the big question. Some evolutionists support the idea of the very large mutation occurring and conditions being OK for it to survive as opposed to the Richard Dawkins (and others) approach of the extremely gradual change.

no i don't think so. scientists aren't clamouring for any macro-mutations kicking into the gene pools and staying? punctuated equilibria maybe, but not leaps forward

this is by the by, there is no leap forward necessary for the theory of snake or any other animals evolution, an intermediate stage is always viable

OK, so try and imagine, think of, draw it if you like how you can progress a lizard skull through to snake and it must be done so it can survie eons of time.

*imagines*

ok, i can imagine, what next?

While all this happening we need to do something about the ribs like go from a few to hundred.

i estimate that would be possible in a few hundred generations with the right selection pressure. genes that produce repeated patterns like ribs, sometimes repeat once more/less than usual

all the snake stuff: i'm not really getting why any intermediate stage would be impossible to imagine?

 

[Mike375]

all the snake stuff: i'm not really getting why any intermediate stage would be impossible to imagine?

The jaws/skull structure. Perhaps that is the reason the legless lizard has never got any further than a lizard without legs. If you have kept both of them you will know that the legless lizard is not even remotely like the snake.

This is not meant as agrument for devine intervention but rather an argument that evolution is only partly true.