Cybele VirtualUI - has anyone used it and can give some advice?

[amorosik]

I'm getting information on Cybele products, in particular on VirtualUI which seems to advertise the possibility of using desktop applications created with Access via the web simply by adding a few lines of code in the forms to be made usable via browser
I am aware that there is no magic wand in these matters and often the expectations are far greater than the results that can actually be achieved
I would like to know if VirtualUI is a product that the participants in this forum use, and for those who have already used it in some project, what advice can you give me in the sense that I would like to understand what pros and cons you have encountered

 

[GPGeorge]

Do they specifically include Access as one of applications they can use? Or is that an assumption reached from looking at their website regarding "desktop applications" generically?

 

[Pat Hartman]

Looks similar to Citrix and Remote Desktop. I didn't see an option to host the Thinfinity product on your own server. That means you will be paying 50-80 per user per month. Check the cost of Citrix and RD, they should be cheaper if you have more than a few users and you have the ability to host them yourself.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I visited the ThinFinity site and read some of their online documentation. They enumerate environments that they support, but Office/VBA is not in the list. Their claim for handling forms requires you to add some code, but they talk about Java-like apps, something that Access doesn't do. While I cannot be sure with out a LOT more research, may I at least very strongly suggest a degree of skepticism? I also noted that they talk more about applications using .NET, which is NOT the same as VBA apps. They also mention WinForms, which is a different environment than Access forms. The behind-the-page code environment is totally different. They talk about compiled code but Access VBA is pseudo-compiled into something that runs via emulation, not direct execution. I believe the environmental assumptions made for ThinFinity do not conform to the Access reality.

I would also be very pleasantly surprised to find out I was wrong in that assessment, but my gut says it won't work. My advice is to make a phone call to those people or a direct e-mail or some other substantial contact and ASK them if their product can support MS Access forms and reports. Some of their documentation also suggests that they place limits on what external code can be called; i.e. limits on ActiveX and other types of API calls. There, I'm not saying they definitively won't work because of the limits. Instead I am suggesting that the limits are like a mine-field waiting to blow up in your face if you happen to make some call they can't support and that you can't live without. And THAT situation is an examination only you can make.

 

[amorosik]

Do they specifically include Access as one of applications they can use? Or is that an assumption reached from looking at their website regarding "desktop applications" generically?

No, Microsoft Access is explicitly mentioned and there are also examples

 

[amorosik]

Looks similar to Citrix and Remote Desktop. I didn't see an option to host the Thinfinity product on your own server. That means you will be paying 50-80 per user per month. Check the cost of Citrix and RD, they should be cheaper if you have more than a few users and you have the ability to host them yourself.

I understand that installing the VirtualUI product loads the rdp server, the desktop/web converter, and enables connection from 1 external client, and therefore that is the Thinfinity server
Maybe you read it wrong, the cost you see is 'per year' and therefore the cost is 69 usd/year for each user

 

[Pat Hartman]

On Closer inspection, I don't know what they are doing so you need to make sure that they can support shared BE's and that each user will have his own private copy of the FE. Can the BE be ACE or SQL Server or some other RDBMS? Can the "converted" application automate outlook, word, and excel? How do you modify the BE? How do you distribute a new copy of the FE.

This app has been around for a while and the fact that not everyone is using it means that it isn't the panacea you think it is.

Citrix and Remote Desktop are still the most viable way to use an Access FE over the internet and NO changes need to be made to the application to use Citrix or RD. Each can be used to publish individual apps or an entire desktop.

 

[amorosik]

Ouch, I see now that the minimum purchase is 20 users
And therefore 69x20=1380 usd/year, and this is a point significantly against the VirtualUI solution compared to, for example, TsPlus

 

[Edgar_]

It looks promising, by their demo:

https://blog.cybelesoft.com/convert-access-web-app

Consider 1.4K/year against the cost of developing and maintaining a web app, the least I've charged for that is around 1k for very basic things, so it does not sound too bad. I see that they don't have a pricing list, so you might be able to negotiate something.

Personally, if I wanted to keep the MS Access UI, as some people prefer not having to learn a new platform, I'd use Firebase or build a web server with SQL technology to communicate to the frontend, that's how I solve it, there are many other ways, but these are up-to-date technologies and they have huge communities. By the way, the other day I implemented real time notifications in some MS Access apps using Firebase, I recall you needed that at some point.

 

[Pat Hartman]

that's how I solve it, there are many other ways,

It's a matter of how much time/money you have to throw at the problem and how willing/able you are to learn to code with and support new technologies.

As I mentioned earlier, Using Citrix or RD, you have NO application changes to make. If your BE is ACE, you can stick with it if you don't have a reason for switching. You can host Citrix or RD using a third party but that can get expensive. If you can't host the server on your own LAN, you probably will need to move from Access to some other technology either partially or fully.

Don't forget to ask the questions I mentioned earlier before even thinking about adopting this new tool.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

On further review, it would appear that they work by triggering some sort of "hook" that ties into your main control window by adding a line to start a virtualizer channel to parallel your screen to a web page. My concern is that you STILL need something to run Access at the end where the virtual UI runs PLUS you still need something at the web-screen end to receive the output of the virtual UI transmission. Which, unless they are doing a multi-user-on-a-single-server case of Access, would mean fully licensed PCs for each web user. Which means other possible hidden costs.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Have them give you a demo. Try to get them to use one of your own applications. Make sure it has at least a separate BE. Let us know the results. This could be a great option. We just can't tell from the promotional material.

 

[amorosik]

Yes, I tried their demo, and it seems to work correctly, in the sense that I put the Access program and the VirtualUI inside a virtual machine and from another pc
I launched a browser indicating the address and port of the virtual pc
It seems to work normally as described, there is only one program to install, a management program is made available which allows you to configure the applications to be 'viewed' and any permissions
So technically it's exactly like other rdp servers
I'm not very convinced that minimum package of 20 users as a minimum purchase
Comparing with the TsPlus system which offers similar functionality, the cost is decidedly very high
With TsPlus for 5 stations it costs around 300 usd as a permanent license purchase

 

[Edgar_]

it costs around 300 usd as a permanent license purchase

Does that include updates? remember that it's web based, things in web environment require updates, very frequent updates because servers are at the mercy of automated attacks 24/7, all year round, looking for common vulnerabilities and 0 days. So, if that includes updates, wow.

 

[amorosik]

Does that include updates?

For 5 user kit, web mobile (client via browser web):
- no updates = 325 usd
- 1 year updates = 390 usd
- 3 year updates = 470 usd

 

[Edgar_]

For 5 user kit, web mobile (client via browser web):
- no updates = 325 usd
- 1 year updates = 390 usd
- 3 year updates = 470 usd

Much cheaper than Cybele. Unfortunately nobody here seems to have used it for reference.

 

[amorosik]

Much cheaper than Cybele. Unfortunately nobody here seems to have used it for reference.

No, my example is for 5 user
Cybele VirtualUI the minimum package is for 20 user, then you cannot compare 5 user kit with 20 user kit
For correct comparation you must choose a 25 user TsPlus Web Mobile edition, 1125usd without updates, 1361usd with 1 year update
For Cybele a 20 user kit is 1400usd/year ( while the TsPlus license is perpetual)

 

[Pat Hartman]

It seems to work normally as described, there is only one program to install, a management program is made available which allows you to configure the applications to be 'viewed' and any permissions

Is the BE shared? Can you automate other office products?

 

[amorosik]

Is the BE shared? Can you automate other office products?

I don't understand exactly what you mean to ask
For the tests I used both programs Access that connect to Firebird and Microsoft SQL Server db
And the db is accessed locally by all running program instances
It is not shared in the sense that it is also made directly accessible to clients who start the Access procedure

 

[Pat Hartman]

Shared means - is the FE connected to a database that is shared by other users? And the answer to the second question in the same sentence is???