Guild Wars or WOW?

[georgedwilkinson]

It is brilliant, I have a 62 Death Knight and 57 Paladin. My wife plays along side me and we have a great time. I love the professions almost as much as the questing becuase it gives such an extra dimension to the game and lets you make some really useful (and sellable) stuff.

My wife's sister is a level 80 so she can help out from time to time but we're trying to do it all ourselves.

When you get to level 80, you most likely will need help. There is really no way to progress without grouping up to do heroics and raids. It's probably best to get into the habit now. I was shocked when I hit 80 and found it was like starting over and I actually had to work with other people!

 

[Rendbre]

I know, the guild chat is 90% about arranging raids etc, I'm looking forward to getting the good stuff later on in the game.

 

[rustyCrVx]

WoW was amazing to play but it soaked up soooo damn much of my time. Particularly being the main tank of my guild for raids, I was expected to be there. If we weren't raiding we were going after heroic achievements. It was the crack of the internet for me and thankfully I managed to make myself quit after my guild was busy fighting with each other over nonsense. It was incredibly fun though, just not in a healthy way for me. I'm just waiting for Diablo3 now. It looks amazing.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

I agree about the time commitment and addictive qualities of WoW. I haven't played much for the last 3 months and what little I've played is in leveling a tank (so I could get more play time on the inside of instances). Sounds like having a tank will just magnify my problems, though.

 

[Rendbre]

I know I was on there yesterday with my wife (both levelling DKs) and we got from 62 up to 64. It's amazing the amount of time that you just lose sat in front of the screen, we're currently in Outland as you'd expect and the sky is beautiful.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

Outland is cool. There are parts of Northrend (Scholazar Basin specifically) that are extraordinary. And once you get to Northrend, the scenery changes based on your current quest chain. For instance, there is a place where you have to fight against flying dragons (while on dragon back) and other nearby quests. Later in the quest chain, the dragons (and other stuff) are gone and you have to run different types of quests in the same air space (Dun Niffelem).

I ran my DK as a tank last night (first time). It was immediately after a respec so I was fumbling around with my interface. One of my party members got so impatient, he logged on as his 80 Pally and super-tanked the rest of the instance. At least while I was tanking, I didn't get anybody killed.

 

[Rendbre]

Yes, we're both looking forward to Northrend and all the good stuff. On our other characters (Pally and Warlock) we randomly got on the boat at Menethil and ended up in Howling Fjord which was quite cool but we didn't venture too far though.

So how do raids work? Are they like the other instances you get normally?

 

[georgedwilkinson]

I just tanked for the first time last night. We ran UK twice in a row and I didn't get anybody killed!

Raids are big instances. They come in 10 man and 25 man varieties. The 25 man raids are more difficult in more ways than 1. The rewards in 25 man raids are also better.

In a raid, people usually have multiple roles, which may change from encounter to encounter. Usually, you have 2 or more tanks in a raid. The tank role is swapped based on the particular encounter. For instance, 1 tank may hold the boss while the other (off tank) takes the adds or kites another mob around. Groups can also break into subgroups where 1 subgroup fights the main boss and the other group goes into a dimensional rift of some kind and fights the boss' alter-ego.

Raids take a ton of coordination and I've made myself a promise to never go on a raid (anymore) without Ventrilo. I also require that all members of the raid at least be listening to the raid leader on Ventrilo. You should consider installing "Vent" on your PC and get used to using it.

Also, when you hit 80, the level 80 raids aren't immediately available (in theory). You need to run heroic dungeons (AKA "heroics") and improve your equipment until you meet a minimal requirement to get into the first raid instance. From there on out, you will run heroics (especially the "daily heroic") along with whatever raid instances you can to improve your gear score.

Also, there are "locks" on raids and heroics. Once you've become part of a party that goes into a raid instance, you cannot start a new instance of that raid for a week. Doing the math, you'll see that you can do any given raid only once a week. You can only do heroics once a day.

I could go on and on. Feel free to ask if you have any more questions.

 

[Rendbre]

That all sounds pretty cool, I'm looking forward to getting up to those levels and doing some raids. I'm a blood Death Knight (64) so I guess I'd be tanking, though my other main toon is a pally (only 57) so I suppose I could heal with him.

What levels do the raids start at?

 

[georgedwilkinson]

I think there are level 60 raids but people hardly ever go on them. I went on my first raid at level 70 (Black Temple). The pre-80 raids are novelties only and level 80s will run them to get the achievement. I think most of the pre-80 raids have requirements that you be "attuned" to the instance (usually through having enough good gear).

Raiding in earnest will begin at level 80 after you've gotten enough gear (presumably via heroics) to last without dying quickly. The first raid instance is Naxxramas which requires you have cold weather flying just to get into (unless you do a quest to get into the instance). Naxx is pretty difficult and requires a lot of coordination between party members to complete successfully (thus the use of Vent). Raids get more difficult after that.

I think if you'll look at the comprehensive DK tanking guide on tankspot.com, you'll probably want to go with a Frost spec if you're gonna tank. You can also watch videos of some of the level 80 raids on tankspot, which is pretty cool.

 

[Rendbre]

Well I'm about half way to level 70 so I should be ready to go in a few days. My guild is setting up a Karazhan raid which sounds fun.

Thanks for the tips, I'll check out the site on tanking I really like my blood DK though, I really don't fancy Frost. Can unholy tank?

 

[georgedwilkinson]

I think all DK builds have good tanking tools. I'm just "told" that Frost is the best.

At 70, I tanked for some 75-80 players and was able to hold aggro just fine.

 

[namliam]

I think there are level 60 raids but people hardly ever go on them. I went on my first raid at level 70 (Black Temple). The pre-80 raids are novelties only and level 80s will run them to get the achievement. I think most of the pre-80 raids have requirements that you be "attuned" to the instance (usually through having enough good gear).

It used to be in TBC you needed attunement for even some of the Heroic or even getting into the first raid area (Kara). Now that dont need anymore.... or not as heavy.

There is 60 / 70 / 80 raids as per each "expansion" and yes 60/70 have been "degraded" to being novelties for achievements. But dont be mistaken by no means can you /faceroll on them. You need to pay atleast some attention even when you are level 80 and/or well geared 80.

Raiding in earnest will begin at level 80 after you've gotten enough gear (presumably via heroics) to last without dying quickly.

Getting gear is so easy now, what with Emblems of Triumph dropping free from the sky... You can get geared enough to go into Trail of the Crusader 10 or 25 man without ever seeing (in order of gear) Obsidium Sanctum, Naxx, Eye of Eternity or Ulduar

The first raid instance is Naxxramas which requires you have cold weather flying just to get into (unless you do a quest to get into the instance). Naxx is pretty difficult and requires a lot of coordination between party members to complete successfully (thus the use of Vent). Raids get more difficult after that.

We do raids without Vent most of the time, it takes some tries but it would to with Vent. I have had HORIBLE raids with Vent and GREAT raids without.
Vent does allow more easily for an "ok" raid to be lifted to success vs one without, that is PRESUMING people listen.

Naxx you dont require Flying though, you can be summoned in using the stone.
Ulduar is the place where you NEED flying, unless your group/raid has a warlock in it that can make a stone. The only stone there is "downstairs".

As far as a DK tank goes, I have a lot of bad BAAAAD experiences with damn ignorant full of them selves dk tanks... A LOT... A few very few good ones.
Tanking is a serious SERIOUS job that can go very wrong and spell major disaster for the raid team. A tank is the "pivot" of a raid, though 1 mistake can make disaster... it is usually DPS that "slip up" by taking to much damage or causing to much problems for the tank.
We in our guild have this rule:
Tank dies, Healer's fault
Healer dies, Tank's fault
DPS die, DPS Fault

And George, dont be fooled about holding agro to much. Agro is 2 things, the tank and the DPS. If my mage blasts away at 100% I can out agro most lvl 80'starting' tanks without problems. However if I am in UK with a starting tank he hold agro just fine, because I am only going at 50%.
Agro is a game of DPS, boss, adds and Tank, while the healers keep everyone on our side alive.

Tonight I should have my first 'real' raid in ICC been there a couple of times with random groups but this is mostly my guild with some accosiated friends.

ICC Here I come !

PS. 2 level 80 chars myself, Holy priest to get a feel for the healing side and my main MAGE doing almost 8k dps in 25 man.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

There is 60 / 70 / 80 raids as per each "expansion" and yes 60/70 have been "degraded" to being novelties for achievements. But dont be mistaken by no means can you /faceroll on them. You need to pay atleast some attention even when you are level 80 and/or well geared 80.

Agreed on all counts. I ran BT at 70 with a ton of 80s and it was very difficult. Just because you're running it at 80 doesn't mean you don't have to follow good instance rules. Bad DPS can still take a 70 (or even 60) raid down.

Just an interesting thing on Kara & Molten Core: we 3 manned both of them. It is very difficult and requires a ton of work, but we did it.

Getting gear is so easy now, what with Emblems of Triumph dropping free from the sky... You can get geared enough to go into Trail of the Crusader 10 or 25 man without ever seeing (in order of gear) Obsidium Sanctum, Naxx, Eye of Eternity or Ulduar

And you can get a lot of great gear in ToC regular and heroic...in fact, some of the very best level 80 starting gear around.

We do raids without Vent most of the time, it takes some tries but it would to with Vent. I have had HORIBLE raids with Vent and GREAT raids without.
Vent does allow more easily for an "ok" raid to be lifted to success vs one without, that is PRESUMING people listen.

I shudder to think about that. But you have to realize that I'm not part of a raiding guild and when we do guild runs, we have to baby everybody through the raid. It is crazy difficult to do without voice chat.

Naxx you dont require Flying though, you can be summoned in using the stone.
Ulduar is the place where you NEED flying, unless your group/raid has a warlock in it that can make a stone. The only stone there is "downstairs".

Correct. You can also get a 'lock summon. But I'm too independent for all that.

As far as a DK tank goes, I have a lot of bad BAAAAD experiences with damn ignorant full of them selves dk tanks... A LOT... A few very few good ones.
Tanking is a serious SERIOUS job that can go very wrong and spell major disaster for the raid team. A tank is the "pivot" of a raid, though 1 mistake can make disaster... it is usually DPS that "slip up" by taking to much damage or causing to much problems for the tank.
We in our guild have this rule:
Tank dies, Healer's fault
Healer dies, Tank's fault
DPS die, DPS Fault

And George, dont be fooled about holding agro to much. Agro is 2 things, the tank and the DPS. If my mage blasts away at 100% I can out agro most lvl 80'starting' tanks without problems. However if I am in UK with a starting tank he hold agro just fine, because I am only going at 50%.
Agro is a game of DPS, boss, adds and Tank, while the healers keep everyone on our side alive.

I know very little about tanking other than my non-heroic experience of late. From what I've read, a good tank (the person at the keyboard) can tank well using any number of tanking classes. Vice-versa on a bad tank. So far, I've enjoyed tanking but I always wonder how I'm doing. My friend IRL says I'm doing a great job but I'm a little insecure. At least I've been keeping the group alive.

I know about the DPS problem. I've been playing a hunter for 3 or 4 years now and I can strip aggro off of just about any tank. Fortunately, I've got my misdirect macro set up to allow me lots of flexibility and I use FD frequently. Oh, and I keep a VERY close eye on my aggro meter...if it's getting too hot and my MD/FD are still on cooldown, I'll drop into aspect of the viper to regen some mana while I let the tank do his thing.

Tonight I should have my first 'real' raid in ICC been there a couple of times with random groups but this is mostly my guild with some accosiated friends.

ICC Here I come !

Cool! Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

PS. 2 level 80 chars myself, Holy priest to get a feel for the healing side and my main MAGE doing almost 8k dps in 25 man.

I have a priest and a shammy on the way up for healing, too. I'm not sure that I'm cut out for it, though. Healing is another thing that make or break a group. If your healer sux...uh oh.

 

[Rendbre]

Yay, I hit 70 now so Karazhan here we come!!

 

[namliam]

Downed Saurfang last evening

Q1 clear

 

[Exoduslow]

I have played both games over the past number of years. I prefer Guildwars because it is a decent game to play on your own without having your friends online. I found WOW to be a much more serious game, for example I got kicked from a guild because I have to go for dinner . Also on WOW It was pretty boring grinding on your own, but probably better than guildwars when you are playing with mates.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

There are "fun" guilds in WoW. The only problem with them is if you do want to do something serious (like raids).

 

[namliam]

You can be in a fun guild and raid too

Just dont expect to raid every evening.... and progress is a big slow/slug-ish.
We been stuck on festergut for weeks now , where we have tried anything from 1 to 5 times to down him... depending on availability of players.

Will be making my own Sandals of Consecration this weekend
Havent seen Soulcleave Pendant drop from Saurfang yet , but it will eventually.

Onwards and upwards

 

[colin23]

i think wow is better than guild wars because better graphics and better in game help probly down to that fact that you pay for it but can people honnesly find a cheaper hobby for £8 a month