Hourly Rate of Pay for Access Development

[Just1]

Hi - wondered if any of you could help me. I am self-taught on Access and have designed a quite basic database for a friend who owns his own company. This is a client contact database designed to hold information about his clients and their companies, but also to send reminders to Outlook when they haven't been contacted for a while - ie. to make my friend more proactive in his business.

This was a project which I originally agreed to work on for a fixed price. Needless to say, I undersold myself and probably because I am self-taught, with the number of hours I have put in, I probably got paid 2p an hour!
The project is drawing to a close, but he wants to pay me per hour for any further development to the system, and for any similar work he wants doing, problem is I haven't a clue what to charge him per hour?

Any ideas, without divulging your well-earned salaries of course!!!!????

Thanks
Just1

 

[M8KWR]

i know how you feel, its the problem with doing work for friends - i did a simply database for a mate but he kept changing all the calculations that he required, and in the end did not let me have all the information to finish it, i must of wasted about 20 hours on it. And i did not even get paid The last time a do anything for a mate

I would if i was you set figure (lets say £80) for any changes to be made (this saves wasting your time, cause if the client has got 1 change then they are more likely to wait for another alteration, so they can save money themselves) , and then anthing that takes you longer then an hours charge 30-40. It is a mate after all.

This code you use if a contact has not be contacted then sends a reminder to outlook I could have a look at the code could i, quite interesting...

 

[ScottGem]

Frankly, You shouldn't be taking money for something you aren't fully competent to do. I'm not saying you will never be competent, but its clear from your own admissions, that you were probably not ready to take on such a project for pay.

That being said, you did the right thing by offering a set price. This way YOU bore the costs of your experience, not your client.

My fee for Access development is $75/hr (USD). I believe my fees are on the lower end and I set them because I do development as a side business in addition to my day job (which also involves Access development). Because I can't devote full time to a project, I price myself accordingly. Generally I offer a fee per project. I arrive at my fee by estimating the man hours it will take and multiplying by $75. I also make sure I have a written agreement with the client that spells out what I will be providing for that fee. This way, if they ask for enhancements not in the original specs you can charge for them.

 

[Just1]

To M8KWR - thanks for your comments, I'll take them on board. I will post the code for your information ASAP. Just 1

To Scott - frankly I found your comments quite condescending and rude. You do not know the full circumstances of the arrangement between myself and my "client", and therefore you are in no position to more or less accuse me of taking his money. He was fully aware of my abilities and in fact approached me to do the work for him over a period of time which suited me. In fact, he even paid for some private tuition. So might I suggest that when you reply to posts in the future, you are a little less assuming.

Just1

 

[ScottGem]

You are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I've had many friends AND clients approach me over the years to do things I felt I was not competent to do. In such cases I would explain to the person that I felt I wasn't competent and offered to find them someone who was. Sometimes I would take on a project as a learning experience, but would not charge the person. Even if I felt I was able to complete the task, I would underestimate my man hours so I wouldn't be overcharging them, in other words eating the extra time it might take because of my inexperience or lack of knowledge.

However, I did not mean to imply you were "taking his money" unethically. I am sorry if you took it that way. I specifically said you did the right thing so that you bore the costs of your inexperience.

I've dealt with a lot of questions here and on other sites from people who got stuck with crappy databases from freelancers who didn't know what they were doing or from freelancers who bit off much more than they could chew. So I don't apologize for what you felt was condescending and rude. It was not meant that way, but I stand by what I said.

 

[Psilokan]

Personally I dont see there as being a problem charging during "learning projects." We all need to pay our bills, and all of our time is important. However, that being said, I have taken on a few projects that I charged less for (than I should have) simply because I knew a large part of the time would be me learning, rather than working.

Should you chose to estimte the number of hours and give them a cost ahead of time, you'll sell yourself short for sure. Especially if you dont make them aware that if they decide to make 50 little changes it will add to the cost.

Should you chose to charge them an hourly rate, a fair price depends on many variables. Your education, your experience (both overall, and in that particular programming environment), as well as if this is going to be a day job, or something you're doing on the weekends.

Personally I work with Access as a part time job, where I get $12/h. When I'm at home doing other projects, I charge $20/h. However I only graduated a year ago.

What it all boils down to is what you feel you deserve. If it isnt worth your time to do it, then why are you doing it? Sure it may be a personal favour, but do you really want to get involved in all that work w/o compensation for your time? Would they do the same for you if the rolls were reversed?

 

[ScottGem]

Personally I dont see there as being a problem charging during "learning projects." We all need to pay our bills, and all of our time is important. However, that being said, I have taken on a few projects that I charged less for (than I should have) simply because I knew a large part of the time would be me learning, rather than working.

Should you chose to estimte the number of hours and give them a cost ahead of time, you'll sell yourself short for sure. Especially if you dont make them aware that if they decide to make 50 little changes it will add to the cost.

I don't see a problem with it as long as the customer is totally aware that's what it is.

However, unless I'm actually working under the client's supervision I would give a flat fee. If I was a customer hiring a remote freelancer, I wouldn't know what they were doing during the hours they claimed to work. Unless I had a previous relationship that showed me I could trust them.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Much of my early development work with Access was done for free or for very low rates. The rates were not low because I was an inexperienced developer (I had been developing for over 20 years with COBOL) but because I was inexperienced with Access. I didn't feel that it was appropriate to charge my clients for my learning experiences. Scott wasn't trying to put you down, everyone has to start somewhere, but if you ever want future business at professional rates, you need to be professional and realistic now. I suggest letting someone who knows more about Access estimate what it would take him to do the job. Figure the cost at his rate. Give that to your client as a maximum figure. Then charge whatever you think you need per hour to earn that much money given the fact that it will take you many more hours to accomplish the task and also given that your product will likely be less professionally done.

 

[WindSailor]

Well maybe I am going too cheap. The general rule I go by is if it is the first of the program/project type or design, it is usually free or a very small price or an annual fee for continuing development with the agreement that I keep the rights to the design to sell.

Now that is going on that I still have some serious learning to do, and my programs are strictly a 'Mom and Pop' style, they are not really anything big. One project which is 3 years in the beta stage (I do this as a hobby) the design has changed dramatically, and so has the problems. But this project is now to his liking, and it is better than what he has found on the web as far as similar programs go for the same scope or purpose. Now that comes from more than just a couple of people.
It took both of us a long time to get it there (actually there is a lot of credit to go around and a big part of it goes to this site and to the people here ).

I also use my clients as beta testers. Believe me on different environments this will be challenging. Corporate America, has it sooooo easy (not really), most of the time they have everything setup the same to avoid conflicts.
I also use software protection even on my betas.
So we both have an interest in the project and we both earn our money.

If it is a one-off design just for one person or company, then yes you definitely need to talk money. But also consider the best advertisement is word of mouth.