How about that DOW?

[ajetrumpet]

Pretty big number today...-777. Wow! The House really made a bold move there. Comment anyone?

 

[Banana]

I, for one, am glad the vote failed.

Consider that 166 economists petitioned against this bill. This is quite appalling that the bill didnt even include a consultation with any reputable economist, nor did they call for an expert testimony on the debate.

A Harvard Economist says that Bankruptcy, not Bailout, is the right answer.

The market will sort itself out just fine.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

Over a trillion dollars in wealth disappeared today. In some cases, that was some old lady's retirement. As a child of an old lady, I know that people are scrambling about what to do. I'll be willing to bet a lot of those old ladies sold at the market bottom today, totally destroying any chance their portfolio will ever recover.

 

[ajetrumpet]

I do feel bad for people like that George. And I feel even worse when I remind myself that I have no money to invest, so it doesn't matter one way or the other to me. It's a cryin' shame that businesses have to operate this way.

 

[Banana]

It does really suck that some folks' nest eggs vaporized, and underscores the point that it shouldn't even be in stock market first place. The only reason why most retirement accounts became increasingly reliant on stock market was because the old conservative method of investing money couldn't keep up with inflation.

With so many people conditioned to believe that a little inflation is better than deflation, when it is the opposite, it's no wonder that nobody has really placed the blame on the real originator and biggest benefactor of inflation: Government.

 

[David Eagar]

I'm quite OK that the US goes down the gurgler, but don't take the rest of us with you! (some hope)

 

[Rabbie]

I, for one, am glad the vote failed.

Consider that 166 economists petitioned against this bill. This is quite appalling that the bill didnt even include a consultation with any reputable economist, nor did they call for an expert testimony on the debate.

A Harvard Economist says that Bankruptcy, not Bailout, is the right answer.

The market will sort itself out just fine.

Hopefully Yes. But there is a risk that many of us approaching retirement will loose our hard earned savings and not just in the stock markets. The mood of panic can cause a run on the banks which could wipe out our cash savings and then inflation will take what's left.

The first priority is to stem the panic and then make sure it can't happen again. If this means bailing out some rich people so be it. I don't want less rich people to suffer through no fault of their own.

 

[Len Boorman]

There is going to be a great deal of press saying the pension funds have been hit but remember that it is really only those funds which fail completely where you will loose your pension.

The value and therefore the %funding of pension funds goes up and down all the time depending upon where it is invested.

Cash deposits in British Banks are guaranteed 100% up to £35K. I think it is then 90% for next £XK. Do not know numbers.

If you have more than £35K in a bank move some to another institution after ensuring that the two are not part of the same group.

If you have high yield risky deposits then you risk loosing lots. If you have gone for a good mixed bag then your risk is much reduced.

If you have shares that are down at the moment then if you sell you will ensure you loose money. If you can wait then you may well ride out the storm

I have some oil shares, down a chunk at the moment, I can wait cos I am certain that they will recover at least the majority of the current drop and I do not need the funds at the moment.

Likes of B & B share holders have caught a cold in a big way but if if that was their single investment then that was a risk. If it was flotation shares then they were free to start with so, unfortunate, but no actual nett loss

L

 

[Rabbie]

That is the case at the moment but if in the worst case scenario there is a complete meltdown of the banking system - unlikely but not impossible the government which has no money of its own only taxpayers money may only be able to pay compensation by raising taxation to a very high level.

I have an endowment Mortgage which matures shortly(In the next month) and it is th e bank and not myself which decides where the money is invested but it is myself that has to find the shortfall which may have occurred in the last few weeks. Upto now it has been on target but I have not received a statement in the last six weeks so I don't know exactly what is happening.

Similarly with pension funds. One hopes they will grow approximately in line with inflation or better. But as you say they can go down. The individual pension saver does not decide where the money is invested.

 

[statsman]

Cash deposits in British Banks are guaranteed 100% up to £35K. I think it is then 90% for next £XK. Do not know numbers.

If you have more than £35K in a bank move some to another institution after ensuring that the two are not part of the same group.

L

I don't know if its the same in the UK as Canada but here you are insured for up to $100,000. per despositor not per account.

If you have $100,000 in each of two banks and both banks go under, you only get $100,000

I have a lot of friends who swear I'm wrong so I tell them to read the Deposit Insurance decal on the bank's front window. That's what it says. I had one co-worker who had an inheritance and had $100,000 in each of 6 accounts based on the bank manager's advice. She almost dropped dead when she read the decal. The money had been there for years earning only a fraction of the interest it could be earning. She had followed the advice based on fear of the bank failing and this was the largest bank in Canada. It this bank had gone under the whole country would go under. No accounting for timidity.

We'll cover people foolish enough to get investment advice from a bank manager later.

 

[ColinEssex]

I think it's just typical of the self centred USA.

They started all this money crisis with their greedy bankers selling sub-prime mortgages - now they are refusing to pump in $700 billion to go towards sorting it. The USA is quite happy to spend trillions on getting oil from Iraq for their own use, yet do nothing to help the rest of the world to avoid a crisis the USA started.

Thanks a bunch - you're off my xmas card list now.

Col

 

[ajetrumpet]

Thanks a bunch - you're off my xmas card list now.

Knock it off Colin. Some of us yanks aren't like that..

 

[Alisa]

It's hard to feel sorry for a generation losing their retirement accounts when the concept of retirement doesn't even exist for my generation.

Let the markets fail. That will remind everyone that when you put money in the stock market you are GAMBLING. That is why pension funds, and any other money that people NEED should NEVER be invested in the stock market. Apparently people have forgotten that lesson.

I am proud of my representatives for once.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

That is why pension funds, and any other money that people NEED should NEVER be invested in the stock market. Apparently people have forgotten that lesson.

I think they remember now. It only takes one of these types of things happening every 20 or so years to remind everybody how quickly you can lose when things go south.

I'm not trying to pry so you can ignore this if it is too personal: what generation are you from? As a followup, how come your generation doesn't plan for retirement? No pressure, just curiousity.

 

[Alisa]

I'm 28, don't know what cute name they have coined for us. I would love to plan for retirement. It's just that I have to spend money on all these pesky things like food and gas for my car and paying my enormous coinsurance whenever somebody gets sick.

 

[ajetrumpet]

It's hard to feel sorry for a generation losing their retirement accounts when the concept of retirement doesn't even exist for my generation.

Aim en to that Alisa. I'm guess you're generation X like me. It doesn't matter...gen X or gen Y, they're both kinda screwed if you ask me.

As a followup, how come your generation doesn't plan for retirement?

Because we don't know if we'll have a job tomorrow, that's why. Where have you been George? (not to mention all of the high costs that are going on right now).

 

[Alisa]

Aim en to that Alisa. I'm guess you're generation X like me. It doesn't matter...gen X or gen Y, they're both kinda screwed if you ask me.Because we don't know if we'll have a job tomorrow, that's why. Where have you been George? (not to mention all of the high costs that are going on right now).

Yeah, whatever they call us, who really cares. We are generation f*cked over if you ask me. I pay thousands out of my check every year to fund medicare and social security, both of which are being systematically dismantled by my parents' generation and will be completeley ruined by the time I reach that age.

Oh, and forget about employer-sponsered retirement. Anyone hired in the last DECADE missed out on those programs. The best deal I ever had was a 3% match, but of course, you had to put your money in the stock market. I said no thankyou to that, and THIS is why.

 

[ajetrumpet]

The stock market is NOT a bad thing Alisa, but if you want my opinion, it is now because of the globalization factor. It is MUCH safer to put your money into the bank and build it there than it is to put it into the stock market. People are MUCH more panicky today than they ever have been, but if you ask me again, the stock market is a GREAT things if you know how to play it.

I remember the CFO I worked for a while back and he bought shares of google close to $150 or something like that I remember. He told me he had just sold it at that time (price was around $650), but he sold it too soon. As we all know, google has been up close to $800 a few times, but it has since deflated it's balloon a bit. It might go back up though once google announces it's new browser...

 

[Alisa]

The stock market is NOT a bad thing Alisa, but if you want my opinion, it is now because of the globalization factor. It is MUCH safer to put your money into the bank and build it there than it is to put it into the stock market. People are MUCH more panicky today than they ever have been, but if you ask me again, the stock market is a GREAT things if you know how to play it.

I remember the CFO I worked for a while back and he bought shares of google close to $150 or something like that I remember. He told me he had just sold it at that time (price was around $650), but he sold it too soon. As we all know, google has been up close to $800 a few times, but it has since deflated it's balloon a bit. It might go back up though once google announces it's new browser...

I don't think the stock market is a bad thing. I just don't think it is the place for money that people rely on. I feel like buying stock is ultimately the same as gambling (obviously much better odds than you would get gambling in a casino, but gambling just the same). Average people just trying to get by have no business putting a single penny into the stock market.

And I like your "homepage" by the way.

 

[Lightwave]

I can't help but feel that the banks were only giving the consumers what they wanted. Consumers wanted mercedes from germany, caviar from russia, cameras from Japan and and everything else from China.

The balance of world power is on the move away from America to the east unless the underlying problem with the balance of trade can't be sorted out.

Britain's exactly the same - the eventual switch in the balance of trade from creditor to massive debtor was the end of the British Empire and it's going to be an ongoing headache for America...

America and Britain will have to re-learn the lessons they taught to Japan and China ie self reliance, imagination and investment in real tangible assets that produce economic growth.