Question How to work with a To and From table in Land Parcels (1 Viewer)

jimward

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Hi,
I have a database set up for our historical society to show historical ownership of land parcel/properties in our area.

I have one 2 column table showing the relationship of Title Number and what the new Title number is when the property is sold. So Property Title #1234 is now Title #4567.

I have another 2 column table [which should be redundant] which shows the new Title # and what it came from. So the table is identical except that the 2 columns are reversed.

This is the only way I, with my very limited knowledge of Access, can create Queries and Reports which either show the From Title #, or the To Title #.

I hope this is clear enough to understand my problem.

I am sure there must be a better way. I really need your help.
Thanks in advance,
Jim...
 

plog

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You didn't post a question so I'm assuming it is 'Is my method correct?'

It is not---your data is redundant---you only need 1 table to know everything. Using your example you would use 2 records in the same table--

Ownership
PropertyTitle, ReplacementTitle
1234, 4567
4567,

That's it. With that you know what you need.
 

Uncle Gizmo

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I don't know how this works but I assume that every time a plot is sold it generates a new title number?

If that's the case then referring to the plot by the old title number and the new title number is not a very good way of going about it.

It seems more logical to me to have a plot location (as this is unlikely to change) the address of the plot or the grid reference of the plot. Use this as a unique reference to store all the plot title numbers related to that property.

So you would have a table:-

Plot ID (based on address), Date, Title#

So you have a list of plots, the date it was allocated a new title number and then a date when the next new title number is allocated and again when the next... and the next....




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moke123

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not to muddy the waters, but since this is historical information another issue may rear its ugly head, bearing in mind we don't know where your from or how land records are kept. I agree with gizmo that locations are unlikely to change but over the years a large parcel may likely be subdivided. Just thought i'd throw this out if it makes a difference.
 

Uncle Gizmo

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Interesting point raised by Moke123... Imagine a plot of land let's say 3 acres and it is sold for development.

Through the planning process roads are constructed (streets) these streets have house plots. The plots are numbered.

The original plot disappears completely and becomes 10 new plots. However you also have the vehicular access, the roadways and streets. How do you handle these? Do they pass the hands of the local authority? Does the local authority record them as assets?

I think the main point is a paperwork systems that deals with it must have already been created, must already be in existence. I would take my Lead from "it".

You'd be better off matching your system to an existing known system which has had bugs ironed out of it over the centuries and which you may well find yourself having to integrate with.
 

Simon_MT

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Like County Parish Numbers the piece of land reference does not change, in your case, the ownership does. Using the same principle that the land has a unique ID and then attached to each title holder.

Simon
 

jimward

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Hi. Thanks so far for suggestions. I did not realize I had not actually asked a specific question.

Firstly for the person who suggested using a geographic coded ID for a property plot, I need to point out that here at least [Canada] a property can change size at every sale transaction. It can be joined with another property to form a larger property, or it can be subdivided into one or more smaller properties. All are given new Title ID's, which are date/time stamped. So unfortunately this method would not work.

So, I understand what I want to accomplish, just not how to actually accomplish it in Access. I do know that I really only need 1 table, in my case the one which has Current Title ID in column 1, and the next Title ID in Column 2.

However, there can be a one-to-many and a many-to-one relationship in this Table, such that Title #1234 in column 1 can be listed one or more times in column 1 depending on how many Next Titles exist: 1234,4567; 1234,5554; etc.

So, I want to accomplish two main results:
1. Produce a query which given input of ID from column 1, what is the match(s) from column 2 combined with a Title Name [which comes from a lookup table] in a Report.
2. Given an input of Title ID from column 2, what is the match(s) from column 1 combined with a Title Name [which comes from a lookup table] in a Report.

Does this make more sense, or am I still confusing everyone?
Thanks,
Jim...
 

The_Doc_Man

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Jim, we aren't confused at all. Your system is. The reason you are having trouble is that until you CLEARLY define your requirements and methods, you aren't ready to code doodlum-squat. You think you have defined everything, but you haven't. Here is the point that is going to bite you on the butt.

a property can change size at every sale transaction. It can be joined with another property to form a larger property, or it can be subdivided into one or more smaller properties. All are given new Title ID's, which are date/time stamped.

Your two-number table is inadequate in that you need to be able to know WHEN that entry was made as such, and because you also need to know whether the resulting property was a simple transfer of title or a size change (split or join, which one is actually immaterial except that you have know the nature of the change.)

Think about this table as a possible starting point:

tblTitleChange:
XactNo, autonumber (long), an arbitrary number used for reports and control forms.
SrcTitle, LONG, the source title for this transaction
DstTitle, LONG, the destination title for this transaction
XactDate, DATE, the date (optionally, time if you needed it) of the transaction
XactType, SHORT TEXT (1 char) - T for transfer, J for join, S for split
(if you need to track who entered this transaction, add to this table)
(if you wish to include property dimensions resulting from the split/join, add to this table - but in this case a separate table on property ID / dimensions / owner might be a better choice for you.)

Here is the next conundrum you need to consider: Suppose for the sake of argument that property 1234 and 1345 are JOINED for a new property with title 1456. Next year, property 1456 splits into 1567 and 1678. Now someone comes in and says they had an old, unresolved and improperly recorded lien on property 1234 and need to find out what happened to it. Your report won't do that in one shot, because the record that correctly describes 1234 would stop at 1456, but that doesn't describe the current state of the property. This requires some type of topological sort algorithm that can follow properties, and it would be a hum-dinger to manage. Part A of the hum-dinger is to be able to follow links, probably via a callable VBA function to find the MOST RECENT transaction that involved source-title X which is (or derives from) the selected input title number. Part B, though, is that if a split or join occurred, your function ceased to be a one-to-one search and became a one-to-many search.

In essence, to know where the property is now, you have to ask yourself if that question can even be answered. (No, not kidding.) Suppose that 1234 and 1345 were both rectangles with the long axis parallel to the equator and that the merger of those properties left 1456 as a square property. The split then caused 1567 and 1678 to be rectangles with the long axis perpendicular to the equator. Now, tell me where is property 1234? You have a can of industrial grade worms there, Jim.

Now, just so you don't think I'm dumping on your cry for help, here is a comment on at least part of your concern: For the simple issue for reports based on any one property title, reports DON'T CARE whether you sort by old titles first or new titles first. Queries can be built to search based on EITHER of the title number columns (as two separate queries, one that focuses on old number, one that focuses on new number.) Having a many-many table lets you have that flexibility to choose which column "drives" the process. Access truly is achiral (which means it doesn't care whether it is doing a left-handed or right-handed search.)
 

Lightwave

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OK Jim I 've designed a property system before and I can tell you how I ended up dealing with it. Warning I refer to the acronym GIS in the following which stands for Geographical Information System.

2 Core Tables

Table001Sites
PKID
Sitename (could be titledeed)
Geometry (Real World Coordinates that define the boundary )

Table002 - many to many relationships
PKID
FKID1 - The parent PKID
FKID2 - The child PKID

FKID1 is a list of all PKIDs from Table1 - and limited only to these PKs
FKID2 is a list of all PKIDs from Table1 - and limited only to these PKs

Now everytime a new title deed is created you add all the attributes to Table001 and lets say for simplicity you start with one large polygon the size of Texas in Table001. The West side of Texas is sold to Elon Musk while Trump takes the East. 2 further records are created in Table001 with PKIDs 2 and 3. Table 002 also has 2 further records created in Table002. If the new titles don't split a large site then no records are created in Table002

Splitting Texas as per above Table002 records added;-
PKIDN+1 1 2
PKIDN+2 1 3

Now if you want to know the parent of polygon three you query table 2 for all records with three in FKID2. If you get 0 returns you know it has no parents. Likewise if you want to know all the children of record 1 you query table 2 to see how many records there are with 1 in FKID1. If you get no returns it has no children.

AS real world items are spatial in nature the only true test of its uniqueness is by physical comparison of the geographical boundary. This is the ONLY way of determining the actual unique record as the primary key is actually the combination of coordinates in the geometry column. Autonumber fields are just markers for the geometry. Access can be used as a geodatabase linked to some kind of graphical program to display the boundaries (I recommend open source QGIS see link at bottom). I think Microsoft spatially enabled SQL Server from 2008 and you can actually write TSQL against a geometry column this is not possible in MS Access but your second table will cover a lot of your issues and you can manually eyeball other things using a GIS system. (The brain is actually brilliant at comparison of shapes which mathematically requires an incredible amount of calculation). If you had sql server in theory you would not need table2 and you could do a fancy SQL statement to compare the geometry of records against the geometry of other records but that's not available in MS Access. Displaying them in a digital mapping package gets round this. If you have a database linked up to QGIS when you digitise in the geographical information system it will put the coordinates into the database for you. Alternatively you can let the GIS store all the coordinates and you keep a Key file in the GIS data file that matches the key field in the Access database. In this way the GIS data file is a separate table with a 1 to 1 relationship with Table001.

I would add a creation date to table001- by doing a query on Table001 you can easily find when a title deed was created. If there are no child records in table002 you know that its still in existence. If there are child records the date of change over will be the dates of creation in table001 of the child records. If there are child records if you need to know whether the child records completely covers the parent or not the ONLY way will be by looking at it on a map unless you have SQL Server and use one of the new fancy spatial functions to compare geometries. With the above structure users manually create the links between the records but in some ways that is no different from having an invoice and showing the bill of quantities.

It should be noted that to complete new records any users will need to receive a location plan clearly showing the boundary of the new title deed. They will compare this against an existing map showing all records in T001table and comparison will determine whether new records need to be created in Table002 - there is NO other way to do this except through a graphical interface. (This gets you out of the industrial grade can of worms referred to by Doc Man). So you won't be able to create a complete solution with MS Access by itself in this case.

This is quite a technical project if you want to do it properly - and is the same pattern as used by national land register agencies (although many are only now including coordinates into the core databases - legacy systems traditionally held boundaries on paper with links to an attribute database)

Good luck
PS although open source QGIS is premium enterprise grade leading software and is used widely throughout academia and industry to a level similar to linux and apache its main rival is ArcGIS which is very expensive.

Further reading
SQL Server 2016 and Spatial Data Overview

SQL 2016 Details about storing coordinates

QGIS Link to great Open Source Geographical Information Software
 
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