Questions to God. (3 Viewers)

[MarkK]

No matter what you believe, as you walk the path of your own narrative you will find it ends in profound mystery. Reasoning from science confronts the unknowable. Belief in God confronts the unknowable.

Possibly, the degree to which you think your own view is worth arguing is directly proportional to your own discomfort with its uncertainty.

 

[Mike Krailo]

Science tells us that ribonucleic acid formed in the primordial soup. It wasn't alive because RNA is not alive. It's just a melange of carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and hydrogen. But when two RNA molecules intertwined, things got interesting. Because two intertwined RNA sequences equal a DNA sequence. Technically, DNA isn't alive, either - but with DNA as a template, things REALLY got interesting.

Before we start throwing around acronyms that might confuse people, let's define what RNA actually is first. Then we can think through what you just said logically. I did a simple AI assisted search asking does RNA contain information? This is a crucial question IMO. Interestingly, the AI came back with the following.

It is like a container that carries the DNA information or copies of it (mRNA, tRNA, rRNA) for the purpose of protein synthesis. So that leads to the question, what is synthesis? It's basically the product of this complex biological wonder machine, as it puts the elements (building blocks) together into workable usable biological product. It all starts in this amazing biological machine like factory for biological things.

Yes, RNA contains information. It carries genetic information from DNA to the ribosomes, where it directs the synthesis of specific proteins during translation. This information is encoded in the sequence of nucleotides—adenine (A), uracil (U), cytosine (C), and guanine (G)—which form codons that correspond to specific amino acids. Messenger RNA (mRNA) is the primary type of RNA that conveys this information, acting as a temporary copy of a gene's instructions for protein production. Beyond mRNA, other forms of RNA, such as transfer RNA (tRNA) and ribosomal RNA (rRNA), play essential roles in the process of protein synthesis. RNA also serves as the genetic material for many viruses and performs various regulatory functions within cells.

What is RNA? Clearly it is part of existing living cells, so just observing what it is and this complex function that they perform is already present in fully formed living cells and proves my point even more. Explaining how this biological masterpiece came to be in the first place is the crucial question. I argue information could not have just formed itself or put itself together in a functional way. Just look at the complexity of the functions themselves and where did all that information come from in the DNA in the first place?

Ribonucleic acid (RNA) is a crucial biological macromolecule present in all living cells, playing a central role in converting the genetic information stored in DNA into functional proteins. It is a single-stranded nucleic acid, in contrast to the double-helix structure of DNA, which allows RNA to fold into complex secondary and tertiary structures that are essential for its diverse functions. The key difference between RNA and DNA lies in their sugar components: RNA contains ribose, which has an extra oxygen atom compared to the deoxyribose in DNA, making RNA less stable but more versatile.

RNA's primary function is as a messenger. When a cell needs to produce a specific protein, it transcribes the relevant gene from DNA into a messenger RNA (mRNA) molecule. This mRNA acts as a temporary, disposable copy of the genetic instructions, which is then transported out of the nucleus to the cytoplasm where ribosomes can read it. The ribosome translates the mRNA sequence, which is read in groups of three nucleotides called codons, into a specific sequence of amino acids to build a protein. Transfer RNA (tRNA) molecules act as adaptors, bringing the correct amino acids to the ribosome based on the mRNA codon, while ribosomal RNA (rRNA) forms the core of the ribosome and catalyzes the formation of peptide bonds between amino acids.

Beyond its role as a messenger, RNA has many other vital functions. It can act as an enzyme, known as a ribozyme, catalyzing chemical reactions such as peptide bond formation during protein synthesis and RNA splicing. This catalytic ability is a key piece of evidence for the "RNA world" hypothesis, which proposes that early life on Earth relied on RNA to both store genetic information and perform enzymatic functions before the evolution of DNA and proteins. Furthermore, RNA is the genetic material for many viruses, including influenza and HIV, which use its instability to their advantage by mutating rapidly to evade the host's immune system. Recent research has also revealed that a significant portion of the genome, beyond the 2% that codes for proteins, is transcribed into various non-coding RNAs (like lncRNAs and siRNAs) that play critical roles in regulating gene expression, cell division, and other cellular processes, with defects in these RNAs linked to diseases such as cancer and heart disease.

Is DNA information? Many scientists say it is, and to say building blocks of life just intertwined in a book on evolution is over simplistic and overshadows the complexity and timing involved in this process to make the biological machine that is described and observed in living cells which no scientist even knows how to create in the lab let alone it happening by itself in the great shuffling primordial soup (thank God for that). The amount of information contained in any living animals DNA today is not the result of millions of years of evolution. It takes virtually the same amount of information (same chain sequence) in it's perfect sequence to generate each of the various forms of life. Something that does not happen on any other planet that we are currently aware of. And I argue that it does not and can not happen all by itself or by a bolt of lightning or any other imaginable natural event from within the environment just prior to any life existing at all on the planet. That little single cell is the amazing factory of life itself, and each factory of life is programmed with a tremendous amount of information.

Where did that information come from? This is a crucial question that must be grappled with. It is not enough to just say you don't know either. So this question fits in with the overall theme of the thread "a question to God". The evolutionist doesn't ask the question, they just answer it in a non sensical assertive kind of way and just claim that they know it happened all by random chance and all that information just compiled itself into living cells by accident. I'm calling BS on this every step of the way.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The dichotomy between us boils down to these two positions.

You cannot accept that evolutionary forces of the "random connections to see what sticks" style could ever produce anything living. Even though you have seen my mathematical breakdown that suggests good odds of exactly that. Even though you have seen the detailed analogy of Nature shuffling molecules and eventually shuffling genes.

I cannot accept the existence of a being / entity capable of creating a whole universe. I was a Methodist for 30+ years but eventually when I examined the Bible in deep reading while looking for solace during my family crisis, the whole house of cards fell apart. I cannot find a reason for this perfect entity to create us that doesn't suggest imperfection on the part of this entity. I can't find mercy. All that is claimed of God is in the imagination, not provable until you die - at which time (according to Ecclesiastes) all thoughts cease, all awareness, all interactions. Sounds like death to me.

which no scientist even knows how to create in the lab

This is NOT a barrier to evolution being true. A couple of hundred years ago we didn't understand television, computers, and nuclear reactors - all of which now exist. Just because you don't understand or appreciate the science doesn't mean a thing.

Your problem is that you want scientific proof NOW - and actually, I also wanted proof by demonstration when I was still a Methodist. But that didn't happen and I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen. Science discovers new facts at its own pace.

What is RNA? Clearly it is part of existing living cells, so just observing what it is and this complex function that they perform is already present in fully formed living cells and proves my point even more.

Is DNA information? Many scientists say it is, and to say building blocks of life just intertwined in a book on evolution is over simplistic and overshadows the complexity

Except that if you accept RNA, you have a non-living object that can exist outside of the context of a cell and continue to exist as a NON LIVING chemical. DNA isn't living, either. The cells might have been built using DNA as the blueprint, but that is life being built from NON LIVING chemicals - again! DNA contains information but only a poetically inclined non-scientist would say it IS information.