Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs

[ConnorGiles]

Is there a moral to this story? You decide!

I actually really enjoyed that story, I am no stranger to dogs as I have 4 of the biggest breed around (Caucasian Ovcharka - Give them a search).

I know that they are a tremendously smart animal, I see on a day to day basis how smart they truly are. We keep having to buy new baby gates that are about 4 foot tall to stop them getting in because the dominant male keeps finding ways to open it. Hell one of the gates required him to press in both sides of the lever and pull up and he figured it out and walked freely throughout the house.

They are very intelligent creatures dogs, Never underestimate what they can do. In my opinion they have amazing people skills, on numerous occasions my dogs have just for some reason not liked a person and we couldn't figure out why and then in the paper a few weeks later that person was put in jail for an armed robbery.

Dogs really astound me that they can know a person before they actually know a person. Don't get me wrong, If there is a reason they don't like you and I know that reason then It's fine but If it's for no reason I like to live by this rule:

"I live by my dogs judgement, If they dislike you for no reason, There is a reason."

 

[Libre]

(P.S. if you were expecting everyone to answer without letting their manly ego get in the way Libre, then you asked the wrong gender.

Not at all, Conner. I said in a few posts that my belief is that the great majority of males would not identify themselves as sheep due to their egos, but very few are really sheepdogs. I think we agree here. I also said that while I've faced down danger on more than one occasion, I put myself in the sheep category. If I saw something bad going down, I wouldn't rush in w/o hesitation at my own risk. I'd do so only if there was no other option. But in a minor altercation (which admittedly could turn more serious) I would not back down, normally.

I've never really been a "dog person" but I do see how there is much more to their doggie brains than many people may realize. They have self awareness, they know one person from another, they can anticipate certain things, they have memories.

It is this intelligence that allows people to outsmart them, sometimes. (This is providing that person is actually smarter than the dog he is trying to outsmart). Example - when I did have a dog - it was a mixed breed but mostly black lab - and a very intelligent and affectionate one at that - that dog would lie on the couch the moment we left the house. We did not want the dog on the furniture. She knew it was wrong - we tried discipline to discourage this (NO Becky - NO!!!) - but as soon as we would get home, the dog would already be off the couch but there would be black lab hair all over it.
I also noticed something else - whenever I would vacuum the apartment, the dog would take off into another room - she was terrified of the vacuum. Even just the sight of it would make her back away. This was an Electrolux canister type vac with a long hose.
One day I had an idea. Before we left the house I took that hose and some of the attachments and put them on the furniture. I coiled that hose up like a snake! I put the head and the attachments on the chairs. You know, that dog never got near the furniture again - she was so repelled by the vacuum. Score one for humans. Not sure if that puts us ahead, but it was a definite win!

 

[scott-atkinson]

Not at all, Conner. I said in a few posts that my belief is that the great majority of males would not identify themselves as sheep due to their egos, but very few are really sheepdogs. I think we agree here. I also said that while I've faced down danger on more than one occasion, I put myself in the sheep category. If I saw something bad going down, I wouldn't rush in w/o hesitation at my own risk. I'd do so only if there was no other option. But in a minor altercation (which admittedly could turn more serious) I would not back down, normally.

I've never really been a "dog person" but I do see how there is much more to their doggie brains than many people may realize. They have self awareness, they know one person from another, they can anticipate certain things, they have memories.

It is this intelligence that allows people to outsmart them, sometimes. (This is providing that person is actually smarter than the dog he is trying to outsmart). Example - when I did have a dog - it was a mixed breed but mostly black lab - and a very intelligent and affectionate one at that - that dog would lie on the couch the moment we left the house. We did not want the dog on the furniture. She knew it was wrong - we tried discipline to discourage this (NO Becky - NO!!!) - but as soon as we would get home, the dog would already be off the couch but there would be black lab hair all over it.
I also noticed something else - whenever I would vacuum the apartment, the dog would take off into another room - she was terrified of the vacuum. Even just the sight of it would make her back away. This was an Electrolux canister type vac with a long hose.
One day I had an idea. Before we left the house I took that hose and some of the attachments and put them on the furniture. I coiled that hose up like a snake! I put the head and the attachments on the chairs. You know, that dog never got near the furniture again - she was so repelled by the vacuum. Score one for humans. Not sure if that puts us ahead, but it was a definite win!

I had a girlfriend like that once..

 

[ConnorGiles]

Not at all, Conner. I said in a few posts that my belief is that the great majority of males would not identify themselves as sheep due to their egos, but very few are really sheepdogs. I think we agree here. I also said that while I've faced down danger on more than one occasion, I put myself in the sheep category. If I saw something bad going down, I wouldn't rush in w/o hesitation at my own risk. I'd do so only if there was no other option. But in a minor altercation (which admittedly could turn more serious) I would not back down, normally.

I've never really been a "dog person" but I do see how there is much more to their doggie brains than many people may realize. They have self awareness, they know one person from another, they can anticipate certain things, they have memories.

It is this intelligence that allows people to outsmart them, sometimes. (This is providing that person is actually smarter than the dog he is trying to outsmart). Example - when I did have a dog - it was a mixed breed but mostly black lab - and a very intelligent and affectionate one at that - that dog would lie on the couch the moment we left the house. We did not want the dog on the furniture. She knew it was wrong - we tried discipline to discourage this (NO Becky - NO!!!) - but as soon as we would get home, the dog would already be off the couch but there would be black lab hair all over it.
I also noticed something else - whenever I would vacuum the apartment, the dog would take off into another room - she was terrified of the vacuum. Even just the sight of it would make her back away. This was an Electrolux canister type vac with a long hose.
One day I had an idea. Before we left the house I took that hose and some of the attachments and put them on the furniture. I coiled that hose up like a snake! I put the head and the attachments on the chairs. You know, that dog never got near the furniture again - she was so repelled by the vacuum. Score one for humans. Not sure if that puts us ahead, but it was a definite win!

My dog used to be scared of the hoover once, but he seems to get over these types of things quite quickly. We used to discipline him when he was naughty with a water spray bottle. But he grew to quite like it ! In my house we seem to outsmart the dog but the dog always seems to overcome it in the end. We are always looking for new ways to stump him and the girl dogs! Smart buggers!

 

[Bladerunner]

My dog used to be scared of the hoover once, but he seems to get over these types of things quite quickly. We used to discipline him when he was naughty with a water spray bottle. But he grew to quite like it ! In my house we seem to outsmart the dog but the dog always seems to overcome it in the end. We are always looking for new ways to stump him and the girl dogs! Smart buggers!

could tell you how to train him but you would not like it.

 

[ConnorGiles]

I think I will agree.

 

[jeremy.lankenau]

Bringing the thread back because it's Friday and I'm enjoying my last few minutes before leaving work ;-)

I put sheepdog. I've served (and killed) in AFG. I didn't like it, but when you see brothers of people serving in the Afghan National Army being skinned alive to try and force the serving brother to turn on his countrymen and ISAF...or a wedding party massacred because they had music and dancing...or women with absolutely no rights, you realize it is necessary. But I relive my deployment time every day, and while I loved the purpose of it all, there is still a haunting from it.

I don't kid myself that I only eliminated wolves either. Some were sheep forced to do wolves' work 1% of the time, and 99% of the time did their normal sheep work - farming, being with family, etc. But if you are arming IEDs or shooting mortars that 1% of the time, even under threat of death if you don't comply, then you look like a wolf and can bite like a wolf. And some, during that 1% of the time, ended lives of civilians and soldiers alike.

It's not pretty. I hate violence. But ignoring it being done to others is worse. I won't open the can on a sheepdog attacking on another country's behalf (another flock?) or another religion's behalf because they won't stand up, because that's probably for another thread...

The sheepdog who hates blood,
Jeremy

 

[Bladerunner]

Bringing the thread back because it's Friday and I'm enjoying my last few minutes before leaving work ;-)

I put sheepdog. I've served (and killed) in AFG. I didn't like it, but when you see brothers of people serving in the Afghan National Army being skinned alive to try and force the serving brother to turn on his countrymen and ISAF...or a wedding party massacred because they had music and dancing...or women with absolutely no rights, you realize it is necessary. But I relive my deployment time every day, and while I loved the purpose of it all, there is still a haunting from it.

I don't kid myself that I only eliminated wolves either. Some were sheep forced to do wolves' work 1% of the time, and 99% of the time did their normal sheep work - farming, being with family, etc. But if you are arming IEDs or shooting mortars that 1% of the time, even under threat of death if you don't comply, then you look like a wolf and can bite like a wolf. And some, during that 1% of the time, ended lives of civilians and soldiers alike.

It's not pretty. I hate violence. But ignoring it being done to others is worse. I won't open the can on a sheepdog attacking on another country's behalf (another flock?) or another religion's behalf because they won't stand up, because that's probably for another thread...

The sheepdog who hates blood,
Jeremy

Jeremy: Thank you for your service

Blade!

 

[scott-atkinson]

Jeremy: Thank you for your service

Blade!

Ditto

 

[ColinEssex]

I've served (and killed) in AFG. I didn't like it, but when you see brothers of people serving in the Afghan National Army being skinned alive ...or a wedding party massacred . . . . . I hate violence.

It's almost as bad as the US army and airforce searing the skin off of innocent children and adults using flamethrowers or napalm. Or massacring a wedding party in Iraq by US soldiers.

Their crime? Wrong place wrong time.

God Bless America.

Wait until the Ruskies get in their stride, they are practicing in Ukraine at the mo.

Col

 

[Dick7Access]

That is also why I am VERY adamant about respecting everyone's rights and I could shoot someone in the face to stop a murder or a ra** and sleep like a baby that night. It's my last resort, as I firmly believe taking a life unless absolutely necessary to be fundamentally wrong, but I absolutely can and will do it.

Amen, same here!

 

[ConnorGiles]

I very much respect you Jeremy, and I am sincerely grateful for your service.

I won't open the can on a sheepdog attacking on another country's behalf (another flock?) or another religion's behalf because they won't stand up, because that's probably for another thread

This (I believe) could have been kept on this thread as I see it as relevant

What is your views on this guys?

(Sheepdog's attacking on another countries behalf)

At what point does that sheepdog become a wolf?

 

[Bladerunner]

I very much respect you Jeremy, and I am sincerely grateful for your service.



This (I believe) could have been kept on this thread as I see it as relevant

What is your views on this guys?

(Sheepdog's attacking on another countries behalf)

At what point does that sheepdog become a wolf?

Guess you can answer that by answering Yes or No to this question. Did the US turn into a wolf from a sheepdog by staying in Europe all these years after WWII was over.

Blade

 

[ColinEssex]

As I understand it, even Collin only got a talking-to for badmouthing a recently-deceased member here a year or two ago, although I could be in error about that as I missed the actual incident.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I believe he was barred from that discussion.

Not bad mouthing, I merely enquired as to why the chap died as I didn't know him.
I was told my post was not in keeping with the thread and if I posted on that thread again I would be banned.

I just put it down to some mod being overexcited at the time and went along with the request.

Col

 

[Dick7Access]

“There are three types of people in this world: sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs.

http://www.redstate.com/diary/josh_...me-defends-western-civilization-u-s-congress/

 

[Libre]

I said I was a sheep and a few others did too. You know something, a sheep is not necessarily a little lamb. Between a ram and a dog, I think my money is on the ram.

 

[Bladerunner]

I said I was a sheep and a few others did too. You know something, a sheep is not necessarily a little lamb. Between a ram and a dog, I think my money is on the ram.

AhhhhhhH! but the sheepdog protects the sheep,,,,,,,,,that is if he/she/they need it....This may be one of the ones who don't


Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Talking about getting run over by the sheep. My GPs cannot eat without my Bordercollie in the field to run interference. I guess it is the type of dog but the sheepdog will fight the sheep away from their food without hurting them. Kinda of like telling a child not to do something under the threat of having to sit in the corner for an hour. (want to bet on how long it takes them to decide to do this something anyway????lol)..It is funny, they mouth the sheep when they get into their bowl. In contrast, the bordercollie will make them pay if they get near the dogs. The sheep respect and keep their distance from the Border-Collie and the DP (sheep) dogs get to eat in piece. Have a video of this but don't really know the limits of the forum here.


Blade