Today's Environmentalists Are Really Luddites

[AccessBlaster]

There are no barriers for getting ID'S or voting, it's all political gamesmanship.

 

[Isaac]

I'll go even further, admittedly probably alone, but here goes: Let's say for the sake of argument that there is a crack head on the side of the street with no home, no job, no papers, no ID, no birth certificate, no way to even get a ride to a place to apply for a replacement cert or an ID. And please don't think I'm being pejorative with the phrase "crack head": I'm in recovery myself, and fully apply this hypothetical to include if it were me.

Let's just say that that person is going to be bussed to vote on the night of. Except they don't have an ID and can't get one in time.

Does it really make sense that that person, who has no concept of the current issues nor nothing invested at the time into society at large nor personally, should vote to direct you and my's and our country's future?

To me if the ID is a blocker for (a very, very few people who actually would get up and drive somewhere and vote but cannot due to ID), if that's a blocker for those very few people, it probably serves a good purpose.

Many things already block people from voting, but the theory is, if you have enough gumption to leave your home and go to the voting place, with all the challenges and physical inconvenience that may require, then you are allowed to vote. Keyword on "then". It's always been that way.

Imagine all human beings in the country legally could vote by just thinking a thought. Would you really want that? Many will say yes. I respect that, but disagree with it. It ought to cost a tiny bit of effort, or you're not the kind of person I want directing our future in the first place

 

[AccessBlaster]

I think of the save act as, doing the vetting that didn't happen at the border. It really has little to do with American citizens.

 

[Isaac]

good point, and nobody can tell me noncitizens don't vote or might not start to vote in bigger numbers, because we'd never know if they did i doubt

 

[AccessBlaster]

If we really cared about people the hundreds of unattended minors that crossed would be a good place to start.

 

[Isaac]

Yep - and how they disappear into the interior with some kind of super vague reference to their Tio or Tia somewhere, who for all we know is more a Trafficker than a Tio. Something's gotta pay their $10k debt back...

 

[Isaac]

What I'm more worried about now than the save act is the war in Iran. I'm not sad that a bad dictatorship has fallen, per se, but ... I'm pretty nervous about Iran getting back at us. I know Israel has been itching to do this for a LOOONG time, which doesn't necessarily make it wrong I suppose, but sympathetic terrorists everywhere (including the ones in Dallas, Michigan, California and everywhere else in USA) may begin to rise up. Suicide-intentioned terrorists can make life really difficult for a nation, Israel knows.

In addition, I'm worried about the usual aspects of war - like the 162 school girls we killed yesterday as a 'mistaken coordinates' issue.
That's a heck of a mistake, and it's just one of who knows how many happened or to come. That's a horrific, horrific thing.

 

[AccessBlaster]

What I'm more worried about now than the save act is the war in Iran. I'm not sad that a bad dictatorship has fallen, per se, but ... I'm pretty nervous about Iran getting back at us. I know Israel has been itching to do this for a LOOONG time, which doesn't necessarily make it wrong I suppose, but sympathetic terrorists everywhere (including the ones in Dallas, Michigan, California and everywhere else in USA) may begin to rise up. Suicide-intentioned terrorists can make life really difficult for a nation, Israel knows.

It's not like the problem was going to go away if we released millions on a pallet in the middle of the night.

 

[moke123]

She needed a new state non-driving ID and it took us only a day or two from start to finish to gather all required paperwork and apply (at the local driver's license office), and about an hour to wait while their printer got fixed so they could print it on the spot.

How well do you think she would have done if she had to do all that by herself without your assistance?

 

[Isaac]

It's not like the problem was going to go away if we released millions on a pallet in the middle of the night.

what does the second half of that mean?
but I think I get it regardless -

 

[RogerCooper]

Absolutely true. Some years ago my mother-in-law stopped driving and so her license expired. She needed a new state non-driving ID and it took us only a day or two from start to finish to gather all required paperwork and apply (at the local driver's license office), and about an hour to wait while their printer got fixed so they could print it on the spot.

It doesn't sound so easy. If your mother-in-law had no relatives to assist (and drive her to the DMV) how easy would have it been for her to manage to get ID on her own.

Note that in states with mandatory ID they have disallowed college ID's in an effort to shape the electorate. Nonetheless studies have shown little partisan effect in these laws as they hit more Republican voters than their sponsors expect and that voter restriction efforts annoy people and increase turnout among those targeted.

 

[RogerCooper]

Short answer: No — the SAVE Act itself does not prohibit Ranked Choice Voting (RCV).
But there are other related election bills being discussed that would ban ranked choice voting, and people sometimes confuse those with the SAVE Act. Let me break it down clearly.

---

1. What the SAVE Act actually does​

The Safeguard American Voter Eligibility (SAVE) Act focuses on voter eligibility and registration rules, not the voting method.


The core requirement is:

• People must provide documentary proof of U.S. citizenship when registering to vote in federal elections.
  Examples include a passport, birth certificate, or other citizenship documents.

It would amend the National Voter Registration Act (1993) to require election officials to verify citizenship before registering voters.


Other related proposals based on it include:

• requiring photo ID when voting
• tightening voter roll verification
• giving federal authorities more access to voter registration data

Supporters say this prevents non-citizens from voting; critics say it creates barriers for eligible voters.

---

2. Does it ban Ranked Choice Voting?​

No.


The SAVE Act does not contain any language banning ranked choice voting or other voting methods. It strictly deals with who is allowed to register and vote, not how votes are counted or ballots are structured.


So the claim that “the SAVE Act bans ranked choice voting” is incorrect.

---

3. Why people think it bans RCV​

Confusion happens because other election bills introduced around the same time do include RCV bans.


For example:

• Make Elections Great Again (MEGA) Act
  • includes provisions that ban ranked-choice voting in federal elections
• Some lawmakers have proposed separate bills to prohibit ranked-choice voting nationally.

Since these bills are often discussed together with the SAVE Act, people sometimes mistakenly say the SAVE Act itself bans RCV.

---

4. Who the SAVE Act would affect​

If enacted, it would mainly affect voter registration procedures nationwide.

Groups most directly affected​

1. New voters registering
   • Must provide proof of citizenship.
2. People without easy access to documents
   • Millions of Americans do not have passports or easy access to birth certificates.
3. Married women who changed their name
   • If the name on their documents doesn’t match registration records.
4. Election administrators
   • Would need new verification systems and documentation checks

Good point on RCV.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

How well do you think she would have done if she had to do all that by herself without your assistance?

Fair question. Part of the problem for my M.I.L. included physical infirmities, which was in part why she stopped driving. But I know I'm NOT hallucinating when I say I have seen numerous organizations that sponsored voter registration drives to help people who had some impairment or other that would have blocked them. I remember right after the 1965 Civil Rights act that many churches with black congregations started such drives. A few more secular groups also helped. And to the extent that they brought in legitimately eligible people, I have no trouble at all with them offering the helping hand.

@RogerCooper - this response is also for your question. You and Moke asked the same concept more or less.

 

[RogerCooper]

There are no barriers for getting ID'S or voting, it's all political gamesmanship.

It is fairly silly gamesmanship on the part of the Republicans. Many Republicans claim that they lose elections because of massive voting by illegal aliens and yet Republican prosecutors can rarely find any evidence. Meanwhile, the groups which would be hindered the most are the elderly and women who changed their name upon marriage, Republican leaning groups.

 

[AccessBlaster]

It is fairly silly gamesmanship on the part of the Republicans. Many Republicans claim that they lose elections because of massive voting by illegal aliens and yet Republican prosecutors can rarely find any evidence. Meanwhile, the groups which would be hindered the most are the elderly and women who changed their name upon marriage, Republican leaning groups.

Married woman who changed their names can re-register to vote. You know like when you move, you tell the postal service your new address. It's part of life's little challenges.