Today's Environmentalists Are Really Luddites (1 Viewer)

[AccessBlaster]

Certainly, for many people, what you say is correct. At least for people that have lived their lives working for government or corporations.
They are used to being led, and they are used to bureaucracy and getting along to get along. And to people that have lived that way, it seems simple to take of all that.

Here is a reality. I got my DL in Texas in 1976, they took my thump print, I moved to Virginia in 1986, they took my thumb print.
Then I forgot to pay a ticket (it was a ridiculous ticket, I'll tell that story later) in 2008, and they revoked my license, I didn't even know about it until a guy rearended me. The Cop told me about it so I went the the DMV.
What a freaking night, I had to get in touch with the States of Texas, I had to get a copy of my social security card. go the the DMV twice, and all the time my prints were on file with both Virginia, Texas, and the FBI. I was being vetted for a TS Clearance at the time, so this whole ticket thing could have been important.
And wow, wouldn't you know it? I had to go through the exact procedure all over again in Texas in 2012 when i moved back. Sadly, there was a bad leak in my boat and all of my document were destroyed. And all the while I have the "Real" ID in two states, each requiring SS card, birth Certificate, and finger prints. And now our fatso President want's me to bring additional federally approved ID to vote in my Texas Election.

There is nothing legitimate about this ID thing. In most cases, Republicans and Libertarians would be out raged at the Central Government overreach. But, it seems that no overreach sanctioned by the Orange Cool Aid Man is too far.

Life is full of inconveniences we all have them. It’s part of how a functioning society works. I understand that some people fall through the cracks; they’re our friends and neighbors, and we should help them live good, productive lives. At some point, these individuals will need to travel or buy a car, and no one thinks it’s strange to require identification for those purposes. It only seems to strike a nerve when it comes to the balance of power "voting".

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Fingerprints on your ID aren't much of a problem for me any more, but when I had to maintain a security clearance, my last couple of rounds became tricky. When I went to the security station to get my updated CAC (smart-card, computer access card), my fingerprints didn't match the old one from about four years earlier. The electronic reader didn't know me. Fortunately, they had a senior operator who had seen this before. He pulled the print from the card chip and the print from the reader to do a side-by-side comparison. To keep it short, my fingers had become wrinkled due to age, so my current prints had extra vertical lines. But the underlying ridges and whorls matched, so the guy updated my records.
It WAS a bit unsettling to find that my fingerprints said I wasn't me. One of those existential moments, I guess.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I bought a Pistola in the ’80s. I filled out the proper DROS paperwork, but after the ten-day waiting period, I was rejected. It turned out I had a criminal record on file.
I went to the nearest sheriff’s station, submitted a full set of fingerprints, and updated my middle initial. It cost me an extra week and some frustration, but nobody said life was going to be easy.

 

[Thales750]

Life is full of inconveniences we all have them. It’s part of how a functioning society works. I understand that some people fall through the cracks; they’re our friends and neighbors, and we should help them live good, productive lives. At some point, these individuals will need to travel or buy a car, and no one thinks it’s strange to require identification for those purposes. It only seems to strike a nerve when it comes to the balance of power "voting".

This is another case of distorted facts. The real fact is that it's not just an ID, its that the Trump Administration knowing it has lost all support outside of its 34% base. So it's willing to start wars, create fake info on the "illegal" voter roster, and to fake people out into believing this is about ID to vote.

This is about voter suppression.
Facts:
1. States are in control of elections. It's amazing how folks can be so triggered by an attack on some of their rights by the Federal Government, but only selectively.
2. In Texas, Virginia and any States with "Real Id" you must provide a Birth Cert if you are a citizen. So that means that they states should not issue a voter registration if you Real Id that does not include a Birth Cert.
so if A=B, ^ B=C , A=C
So a Real Id has imbedded into it proof of citizenship. This login is irrefutable. I know how difficult it is accept facts when they disagree with folk's world view, but in this case, it's overwhelmingly out of balance.

 

[Thales750]

Fingerprints on your ID aren't much of a problem for me any more, but when I had to maintain a security clearance, my last couple of rounds became tricky. When I went to the security station to get my updated CAC (smart-card, computer access card), my fingerprints didn't match the old one from about four years earlier. The electronic reader didn't know me. Fortunately, they had a senior operator who had seen this before. He pulled the print from the card chip and the print from the reader to do a side-by-side comparison. To keep it short, my fingers had become wrinkled due to age, so my current prints had extra vertical lines. But the underlying ridges and whorls matched, so the guy updated my records.
It WAS a bit unsettling to find that my fingerprints said I wasn't me. One of those existential moments, I guess.

What are you saying Doc? That you have been old forever?
I'm starting to get what that feels like.
The part of the ID prints that bothers me, is not that they take them, its that the states don't use them. It's complete BS that I had to prove my citizenship 3 times in my life and every time they took a thumb print.

I have a friend that help developed the global passport instant process authentication. In real time; think about that for a sec. And the their is no nation connection between states on this data. Think how many million of hours of state employee time it would save it this was automated.

 

[Thales750]

I bought a Pistola in the ’80s. I filled out the proper DROS paperwork, but after the ten-day waiting period, I was rejected. It turned out I had a criminal record on file.
I went to the nearest sheriff’s station, submitted a full set of fingerprints, and updated my middle initial. It cost me an extra week and some frustration, but nobody said life was going to be easy.

I'm glad you got it straitened out. How does this relate to stripping states of their right to determine voter eligibility? Why is the Administration disallowing Real Id? It is after all a federal standard.

"The REAL ID Act was introduced by Representative James Sensenbrenner (R-WI) on January 26, 2005. The legislation was developed in response to a recommendation from the 9/11 Commission, which in 2004 urged the federal government to establish secure identification standards to prevent terrorists from using fraudulent documents."

I'm guessing most Republicans support this act.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

So a Real Id has imbedded into it proof of citizenship. This login is irrefutable.

In some states the registration to vote is automatic.

Automatic voter registration map: Find out if your state has it and how effective it is.

At least 24 states and Washington, D.C., have opt-out voter registration systems. How does it effect voter turnout?

www.usatoday.com

The idea that all states have the RealID requirement doesn't stop unregistered aliens from getting one.

States Offering Driver’s Licenses to Immigrants

Explore NCSL's map and table reviewing enacted laws to allow unauthorized immigrants to obtain a driver’s licenses.

www.ncsl.org

If there is some little slip-up then an unregistered immigrant can end up voting when they should not be doing so. Your irrefutable logic is like Vincent Van Gogh, who was lacking one "ir".

 

[The_Doc_Man]

That you have been old forever?

It is not true that I am older than dirt. However, we ARE on a first-name basis.

 

[Thales750]

In some states the registration to vote is automatic.

Automatic voter registration map: Find out if your state has it and how effective it is.

At least 24 states and Washington, D.C., have opt-out voter registration systems. How does it effect voter turnout?

www.usatoday.com

The idea that all states have the RealID requirement doesn't stop unregistered aliens from getting one.

States Offering Driver’s Licenses to Immigrants

Explore NCSL's map and table reviewing enacted laws to allow unauthorized immigrants to obtain a driver’s licenses.

www.ncsl.org

If there is some little slip-up then an unregistered immigrant can end up voting when they should not be doing so. Your irrefutable logic is like Vincent Van Gogh, who was lacking one "ir".

Not if the requirement, as citizens, for obtaining a "Real ID" is a Birth Certificate. If so, then the odds of a "slip up" are the same either way. I'm wondering, why are you defending the Save Act?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Think how many million of hours of state employee time it would save it this was automated.

Think about how many millions of dollars could be stolen once someone figures out how to crack that scheme. Because you know it will be cracked. This is a principle of war but it at least partially applies here: No static defense ever kept out the enemy. An automated system can be complex and have a lot of safeguards - but in the final analysis it is a static defense and is therefore crackable.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

If so, then the odds of a "slip up" are the same either way. I'm wondering, why are you defending the Save Act?

I'm defending the basic idea even though I know that as soon as the actual law is enacted there will be a loophole somewhere. After all, it IS being enacted by Congress, who has been known to screw the pooch many times. The constitution (Article I, section 4, paragraph 1, 1st sentence, 2nd clause) allows Congress to get involved: "but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such regulations" (regarding regulations on Times, Places, and Manners of elections). So the attempt to pass the SAVE act is legal. The devil will be in the details of any amendments.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I'm glad you got it straitened out. How does this relate to stripping states of their right to determine voter eligibility? Why is the Administration disallowing Real Id? It is after all a federal standard.

"The REAL ID Act was introduced by Representative James Sensenbrenner (R-WI) on January 26, 2005. The legislation was developed in response to a recommendation from the 9/11 Commission, which in 2004 urged the federal government to establish secure identification standards to prevent terrorists from using fraudulent documents."

I'm guessing most Republicans support this act.

REAL ID is about identity, not citizenship it’s for travel and federal access. Voting is a different standard: you need citizenship and registration. And citizenship isn’t assumed it’s proven with a birth certificate, passport, or naturalization certificate.

 

[Isaac]

How much of that is cultural, and how much biological? This is not a subject I spend much time on, I did in my younger days though.

I think it's largely emotional and spiritual, but surely the culture factors into it and reinforces something that [in my opinion] is built in too

 

[Thales750]

REAL ID is about identity, not citizenship it’s for travel and federal access. Voting is a different standard: you need citizenship and registration. And citizenship isn’t assumed it’s proven with a birth certificate, passport, or naturalization certificate.

And you have to provide those to get a Real ID if you are a citizen.
So, A=C

 

[Thales750]

Think about how many millions of dollars could be stolen once someone figures out how to crack that scheme. Because you know it will be cracked. This is a principle of war but it at least partially applies here: No static defense ever kept out the enemy. An automated system can be complex and have a lot of safeguards - but in the final analysis it is a static defense and is therefore crackable.

Except we already have a national Real Id database don't we. and the FBI finger prints is already national accessible by local institutions. So really, I'm not sure why the States have not adopted the Federal connections. In the commercial driver's licenses department, they are connecting the dots to stop interstate guys from holding multiple licenses in multiple states.

 

[AccessBlaster]

And you have to provide those to get a Real ID if you are a citizen.
So, A=C

Nope, but you can fly and enter certain secure areas like TSA

A birth certificate proves citizenship
A REAL ID (under the REAL ID Act) proves identity to a federal standard

 

[moke123]

citizenship isn’t assumed it’s proven with a birth certificate, passport, or naturalization certificate.

Of course that's assuming nobody wants to spend the $200 for a counterfeit one.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Of course that's assuming nobody wants to spend the $200 for a counterfeit one.

Pretty sure the real id has been hacked.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Pretty sure the real id has been hacked.

And if it hasn't, it will be, sooner or later - and I'm betting on the side "not much later."

 

[moke123]

If there is some little slip-up then an unregistered immigrant can end up voting when they should not be doing so. Your irrefutable logic is like Vincent Van Gogh, who was lacking one "ir".

You don't have to be a citizen to get a real ID. Real ID is not proof of citizenship.

My wife had a US passport for 30 years before she found out she was not a citizen.