Another Selma brewing? (1 Viewer)

[ColinEssex]

There has been a lot of talk in the UK papers about the recent killings and shootings of black people in the USA. Plus the feelings of some whites against blacks. (Like hatred)

It is also well known that white Americans (not all) despise / dislike black people for various reasons, and apparently there are active groups wanting the segregated days of the past to be reinstated. The recent shootings of (in some cases unarmed) black people by the police do tend to indicate how little respect for life the US police have of black people.

There is also talk of another Selma type retaliation brewing in the southern states.

As the song says, "you don't believe in war but what's that gun you're totin'"

What are the actual facts? Is it just the British press being dramatic?

Col

 

[kevlray]

Unfortunately racism is alive and well in the US. Large cities and the South seem to have biggest issues. I live in a mid size city in California now, and we do not seem be having any big issues (except for gangs), but I saw plenty of issues when I lived in Missouri. Not sure how it will end up. But I am sure that we will see more violence.

 

[Bladerunner]

There has been a lot of talk in the UK papers about the recent killings and shootings of black people in the USA. Plus the feelings of some whites against blacks. (Like hatred)

It is also well known that white Americans (not all) despise / dislike black people for various reasons, and apparently there are active groups wanting the segregated days of the past to be reinstated. The recent shootings of (in some cases unarmed) black people by the police do tend to indicate how little respect for life the US police have of black people.

There is also talk of another Selma type retaliation brewing in the southern states.

As the song says, "you don't believe in war but what's that gun you're totin'"

What are the actual facts? Is it just the British press being dramatic?

Col

It seems the USA has become a white supremacist nation during sometime in the last week. The left has been hard at work. If you really want to know the truth watch this: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/index.html#/v/4320006555001

Yes it is fox news but it is the only station in America that give you the truth,,,that is if you can handle the truth.

it appears those 'birth pangs' as Jesus spoke of in the Bible just got a little more intense.

Blade

 

[Vassago]

Yes it is fox news but it is the only station in America that give you the truth,,,that is if you can handle the truth.

Blade

I really, really needed that laugh. Thanks!

 

[Rabbie]

It seems the USA has become a white supremacist nation during sometime in the last week. The left has been hard at work. If you really want to know the truth watch this: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/index.html#/v/4320006555001

Yes it is fox news but it is the only station in America that give you the truth,,,that is if you can handle the truth.

it appears those 'birth pangs' as Jesus spoke of in the Bible just got a little more intense.

Blade

Blade, please remember that paranoia is a disease and not a hobby.

 

[MarkK]

Where I live, the cops would not facilitate, as they appear to do in this video, a parade that expresses this sentiment. Presumably this is a group of whites flying confederate flags and driving through a black neighborhood. The spirit of what is being done here, to me, is disgusting.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=374_1435549300

And Blade, you are saying this kind of thing just started happening last week?

It seems the USA has become a white supremacist nation during sometime in the last week

 

[Bladerunner]

Where I live, the cops would not facilitate, as they appear to do in this video, a parade that expresses this sentiment. Presumably this is a group of whites flying confederate flags and driving through a black neighborhood. The spirit of what is being done here, to me, is disgusting.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=374_1435549300

And Blade, you are saying this kind of thing just started happening last week?

Hi Mark, Hope all is well with you and yours.

I don't have to look at the video to understand what you are talking about. We here in TN have the KKK parading around in Pulaski once per year. These idiots, well what can I say.

What I meant was if you watch NBC, CBS, CNN, ABC, MSNBC, etc. etc. it appears as though that is al that is what is happening. Yes, I know your country is as large as ours but the our poulations is 9.6% more than you have. A few idiots running around do not a pot of sour mash make. 99.7% of Americans are good and do not uphold the rantings of these idiots including those of the left liberal goons.

AT fox, you get the raw news with both sides presented.

Did you know that there were back then 2,000 Black slave owners owning 20,000 or more slaves. Did you know that back then the north slave owners owned as many slaves as the south did. WE just lost the war and history is written by the victor. Our ancestor fought for that flag and these people want to put that history out of everybody's minds. Someone once said,,,, Yes I know you know who it is, If you forget history you are doomed to repeat it.

As far as my comment about starting last week, it seems the left wing agenda has ramped up its intensity toward anyone in the South or anywhere else that do not agree with them. Again, according to them I am a Bigot so what do I know.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

I really, really needed that laugh. Thanks!

I figured as much since it has been very apparent you do not appreciate the truth as is but rather the truth through the rose colored glasses of the left liberal. Again, I stress that The Raw Fox News. shows ten times more raw news than any of the other networks put together. We are not talking about the talk shows or commentators just the RAW news.

Try it out, you might like it. Hey ,,, you don't have to tell anybody.. .... Don't need another "whipping Boy" on this forum, I have that covered .

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Blade, please remember that paranoia is a disease and not a hobby.

Paranoia: Hum,,,,,,,,,,,,

Was this directed at White Supremacist sentence then you did not look at the link I put along with it. He gives you the skinny on why it is happening.

If it concerns the "Birthing Pangs", paranoia here should be on your part not mine. I will die long before the "birth Pangs' reach the transition phase. However, according to the Bible, I will already be in heaven. Paranoia ----NO ...not on my part. Just telling it like I see it and you Atheist are not listening.

Blade

 

[Vassago]

I figured as much since it has been very apparent you do not appreciate the truth as is but rather the truth through the rose colored glasses of the left liberal. Again, I stress that The Raw Fox News. shows ten times more raw news than any of the other networks put together. We are not talking about the talk shows or commentators just the RAW news.

Try it out, you might like it. Hey ,,, you don't have to tell anybody.. .... Don't need another "whipping Boy" on this forum, I have that covered .

Blade

So anyone that doesn't agree totally with you must be a "left liberal."

Everyone else can keep their Faux News, CNN, whatever other major US media station they want to. I'll stick with independent news sites that have no financial hand in politics and aren't owned by banks.

I bet you think Donald Trump is a swell guy, too. :banghead:

 

[MarkK]

WE just lost the war

The South failed to industrialize. The very strong economy of the South at that time was based on the fact that they didn't need to buy machinery, or hire labour to produce massive agricultural output. I think history, in this case, is written by the winner for good reason.

Our ancestor fought for that flag

Maybe the hard truth is that it was not a noble fight. Maybe it was not an honorable effort. Maybe continuing to marginalize blacks is less painful than owning up to that.

What I see with Germans, by contrast, is that they'll personally apologize for the war in a pub, over a beer. There is an overt guilt, and there is an ownership of the wrongdoing that invites healing. In the American South, there is denial, systemic denial, and rationalization.

• Northern slave owners were just as bad.
• The victors wrote the history.
• It's a left wing agenda

Errors not acknowledged are errors repeated.

 

[Bladerunner]

So anyone that doesn't agree totally with you must be a "left liberal."

Everyone else can keep their Faux News, CNN, whatever other major US media station they want to. I'll stick with independent news sites that have no financial hand in politics and aren't owned by banks.

I bet you think Donald Trump is a swell guy, too. :banghead:

Well at the very least he talks a straight line instead of this political truth which is about telling lies and getting away with it. I am tired of the whole political process.

We will have Hillary or Joe in the End. This was set in concrete the last election.

Independent sites are ok if you stay on the computer all the time, I do not.

Am I wrong that you are on the left side of politics and progressive in your thinking concerning world, USA, Political, social, financial, etc. events then I apologize.

Regardless of what you are, you have a right to your opinion and I guarantee, I will not laugh at it!

 

[Bladerunner]

Unfortunately racism is alive and well in the US. Large cities and the South seem to have biggest issues. I live in a mid size city in California now, and we do not seem be having any big issues (except for gangs), but I saw plenty of issues when I lived in Missouri. Not sure how it will end up. But I am sure that we will see more violence.

Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Did they burn Charleston down as they did Fergusen or Baltimore. I believe we here in the south are a little more together than you think. I know, I know there are those out there that will tell you different but the proof is in the pudding.

Large cities have a problem because over time Liberal politicians and their policies have lied to the people and have done nothing to remove out of wedlock births, disintegration of the family unit, no jobs, drugs, gangs, poor policing, etc. In other words, the breakdown of society because of liberal policies of the democratic left.

Now SCOTUS took "for the people, of the people and by the people" away from everyone in these United States by legislating from the bench two times during as many days.

Yes you are right, It is only going to get worse

p.s. Baltimore has had liberal democratic politicians and policies for 35 years prior to their problems. DAH

Having said that, SouthCarolina was the fuse that would start the civil war. Yet, they recognize idiots, crazies, homegrown terrorist when they see them and refused to lay down and bend to the agendas of those who sincerely HATE this country and would do anything to break it up. My heart goes out to those families of those that died while my hat is off to them for coming together.

Now you have your opinion and I have mine. Here I have laid my opinion all out for you for chomp upon. A good conservative opinion.

Have a good day

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

The South failed to industrialize. The very strong economy of the South at that time was based on the fact that they didn't need to buy machinery, or hire labour to produce massive agricultural output. I think history, in this case, is written by the winner for good reason.

Maybe the hard truth is that it was not a noble fight. Maybe it was not an honorable effort. Maybe continuing to marginalize blacks is less painful than owning up to that.

What I see with Germans, by contrast, is that they'll personally apologize for the war in a pub, over a beer. There is an overt guilt, and there is an ownership of the wrongdoing that invites healing. In the American South, there is denial, systemic denial, and rationalization.

• Northern slave owners were just as bad.
• The victors wrote the history.
• It's a left wing agenda

Errors not acknowledged are errors repeated.

Yes, and history forgotten is repeated. I believe you will find the north built that industrialization on slave labor. Did you know there were many black slave owners in the north that together owned up to some 20,000 slaves not counting all the other white slave owners up there.

Yes, it was a noble fight since we wanted independence from an increasingly dictatorial government that stated all our goods had to go through their ports for sale across the ocean. The civil was was fought over the right of the south through Charleston SC. to sell their cotton and other goods to European countries. When the North said NO, we seceded. . Plus, the releasing of the slaves was an after thought. After the war started Pres. Lincoln, a republican, put forth the Emancipation Proclamation three years after its start. This what the left liberals do not want you to know. If it was all about slavery, it would be easy to start a race war in order to promote socialism across this nation but in South we know why and it is going to be harder for them to succeed. Does that bring anything to mind to day....Are we repeating history. Are we are as divided now as we were back then???????????

The Germans should apologize. Because of them 60 million plus all over the world died. In the Civil war, Brother fought Brother, father fought son, etc. and the NORTH won or did they. As far as I know, my ancestors did not have slaves. Even if they did, to whom do you suggest I apologize to,,,the slave owners of the north,,,,,,,

of course it is my opinion and the history is what was taught when I was a whole lot younger. Of course the history books sing a different tune now days and I don't have to wonder WHY?????????????????????????????


Blade

 

[Brianwarnock]

Anybody who thinks that the American Civil War was about slavery should read Lincoln's inaugural address of March 4th, 1861.

Brian

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Anybody who thinks that the American Civil War was about slavery should read Lincoln's inaugural address of March 4th, 1861.

Brian

Doesn't it contain this - "One section of our country believes slavery is right and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong and ought not to be extended. This is the only substantial dispute."


I didn't have time to read the whole thing, and really take it in though.
I'm sure with all things its never as simple as one issue, but a whole bunch of things.


Trivia question- Where did the final confederate surrender take place Brian?

 

[Brianwarnock]

He also said

"
I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

I agree that the speech takes some study and it is many many years since I did that and others speeches prior to the war, I wish my memory was better.

Brian

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

He also said

"
I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

I agree that the speech takes some study and it is many many years since I did that and others speeches prior to the war, I wish my memory was better.

Brian

We may both be making the mistake of believing anything a politician says!

 

[Frothingslosh]

You would be far better off reading the various Declarations of Causes of Secession (which can be found HERE).

Georgia (mentions 'slave', 'slave-holding', and 'slavery' 35 times):

For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

A brief history of the rise, progress, and policy of anti-slavery and the political organization into whose hands the administration of the Federal Government has been committed will fully justify the pronounced verdict of the people of Georgia. The party of Lincoln, called the Republican party, under its present name and organization, is of recent origin. It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party. While it attracts to itself by its creed the scattered advocates of exploded political heresies, of condemned theories in political economy, the advocates of commercial restrictions, of protection, of special privileges, of waste and corruption in the administration of Government, anti-slavery is its mission and its purpose. By anti-slavery it is made a power in the state. The question of slavery was the great difficulty in the way of the formation of the Constitution.

The Presidential election of 1852 resulted in the total overthrow of the advocates of restriction and their party friends. Immediately after this result the anti-slavery portion of the defeated party resolved to unite all the elements in the North opposed to slavery an to stake their future political fortunes upon their hostility to slavery everywhere. This is the party two whom the people of the North have committed the Government. They raised their standard in 1856 and were barely defeated. They entered the Presidential contest again in 1860 and succeeded.

Mississippi (mentions 'slave', 'slave-holding', and 'slavery' 7 times):

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.

It has grown until it denies the right of property in slaves, and refuses protection to that right on the high seas, in the Territories, and wherever the government of the United States had jurisdiction.

South Carolina (uses 'slave', 'slave-holding', or 'slavery 18 times):

In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals;

Froth note: States' rights? Yeah, the right to impose Southern laws on Northern states!

The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

Texas (uses 'slave', 'slave-holding', or 'slavery' 22 times):

They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.

And, finally, by the combined sectional vote of the seventeen non-slave-holding States, they have elected as president and vice-president of the whole confederacy two men whose chief claims to such high positions are their approval of these long continued wrongs, and their pledges to continue them to the final consummation of these schemes for the ruin of the slave-holding States.

Virginia (actually only uses the word 'slaveholding' once):

and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.

You could also look at the Cornerstone speech, made by the Vice President of the Confederate States of America Alexander Stephens after they created the Confederate Constitution, who said:

The prevailing ideas entertained by <Thomas Jefferson> and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

Or how about the words of the man who designed the Confederate flag, William T Thompson:

As a people we are fighting maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.

The fact of the matter is that the myth that the US Civil War was not about slavery is little more than an attempt at whitewashing and re-writing history by the South and their sympathizers rather than accepting that their ancestors were part of an atrocity. Unlike the Germans, who actually feel guilty over the Nazis and what they did, the South wants to change the facts and claim the war was over anything other than the reasons for which it was actually fought.

 

[Brianwarnock]

My memory, but I admit to it being suspect now, is that the South wanted to keep slavery and Lincoln wanted to keep the Union and was prepared to accept slavery if that would maintain it, however the South did not trust him and stormed some fort, Sumner I think, and thus precipitated the war.

I'm not going to revisit this as it is too big a subject and I no longer have the books I had so would end up Googling my life away.

Brian