Company wont hire programmers with tatoo (policy) (1 Viewer)

[Adam Caramon]

This is of course the way I and each and every other person is educated.

But it actually isn't. Its only the way a certain age group was educated.

When some see a girl with a piercing in her tongue some think it is a positive statement. Others think, .

Of course, but that's my point. A piercing is not inherently good or bad. You have a negative reaction to it simply due to the way you were raised.

People everywhere dress to make a statement or to suit the weather, or perhaps for religious reasons.

Or maybe they think that butterfly tattoo is pretty. Or maybe they think that barb wire on their arm makes them look tough. Regardless, its simply a means of expression.

Have a look at an American Marine. His uniform is perfect. Check out U Tube for the Tomb of the unknown Soldier. There you will see ultiminate respect.

But you still haven't explained HOW a certain dress or lack of accessories equates to respect. I understand that you appreciate conservative apparel, but this is very subjective. Some people like it, some people don't. No one is right or wrong.

People with those long things in their ears, studs in their nose obscenities painted on their body are making a rebellious statement. Those that dress smartly for a job are trying to make a positive statement

I'm sure that's the case for some people, particularly teenagers trying to find their own identity, but most adults that choose to adorn their body with piercings or tattoos simply like them.

The fashion of today will all change given time. But what you or I do right now is how we feel about ourselves and how we feel about those around us. This will have an influence on the rest of our lives.

You're speaking in very lofty, non-specific terms. There's a dress code where I work, so I follow that dress code. If there wasn't, I'd happily wear jeans and a tee shirt to work.

I really don’t care what others do to themselves. There are some tattoos that look great. But if you are wearing one keep away from my daughter and my son and no I don't have a job for you.

That's quite judgmental of you. Because someone has a tattoo that makes them an undesirable person? You are definitely a product of your generation. You would get along nicely with the "Get off my lawn" crowd.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Originally Posted by RainLover
People everywhere dress to make a statement ...

Adam replied
... Regardless, its simply a means of expression.

I'm really struggling with the semantics here, can somebody enlighten me as to the difference between these two statements.

Brian

 

[Adam Caramon]

I'm really struggling with the semantics here, can somebody enlighten me as to the difference between these two statements.

Sure. "Making a statement" has a negative connotation to it. Expressing ones self has a positive connotation it.

For example, a young man's father has told him he's not allowed to grow his hair beyond a certain length. The young man doesn't even particularly like longer hair, but as his father is trying to control him, the young man defies his father and grows his hair out. The young man is making a statement.

On the other hand, a young man is fascinated with blue hair, so he dyes his hair blue. He's expressing himself.

Making a statement implies that a person is intentionally trying to offend or upset people. Expressing ones self does not.

 

[RainLover]

I'm really struggling with the semantics here, can somebody enlighten me as to the difference between these two statements.

Brian

Brian,

You are correct.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Sure. "Making a statement" has a negative connotation to it. Expressing ones self has a positive connotation it.

For example, a young man's father has told him he's not allowed to grow his hair beyond a certain length. The young man doesn't even particularly like longer hair, but as his father is trying to control him, the young man defies his father and grows his hair out. The young man is making a statement.

On the other hand, a young man is fascinated with blue hair, so he dyes his hair blue. He's expressing himself.

Making a statement implies that a person is intentionally trying to offend or upset people. Expressing ones self does not.

I think that is bullshit. You took two particular examples and put your own spin on them.

I think the second guy was making the statement that he likes blue hair and the first guy expressing his dislike at being ordered about.

Brian

 

[rodmc]

Doesn't matter if they are good or not, there will always be someone else out there that is better.

that will always be the case but irrelevant to the subject at hand. If you are interviewing, you would have short listed people for interview, so you come across someone who is very talented but has a tattoo on his forearm that you can just make out through his shirt, so you hire the person or do you start the recruitment process from scratch again to find someone who is more talented? no brainer!

Additionally, a lot of armed forces personnel get tattoo's, would you tell the person to beat it just because of the tatt? That would be a bit of a PR disaster, "this man risked his life for his country but Mr X wouldn't hire him because of his platoon/regiment tattoo", I would imagine in the US especially this would attract a lot of criticism and may even cost you a few contracts!

 

[RainLover]

Sure. "Making a statement" has a negative connotation to it. Expressing ones self has a positive connotation it.

For example, a young man's father has told him he's not allowed to grow his hair beyond a certain length. The young man doesn't even particularly like longer hair, but as his father is trying to control him, the young man defies his father and grows his hair out. The young man is making a statement.

On the other hand, a young man is fascinated with blue hair, so he dyes his hair blue. He's expressing himself.

Making a statement implies that a person is intentionally trying to offend or upset people. Expressing ones self does not.

Adam

I cannot see how you have come to that conclusion. There are other things you have said that also confuse me.

You appear to read things and somehow translate into something else. It is like you are looking for the missing meaning which does not exist.

I am not sure we have the same understanding of the word "Respect".

So I think with that, unless you have something in particular you need me to explain, I am going to ease out of this debate.

Thank you I have enjoyed, and I would like to think that you understand more about what I am saying than you are letting on.

 

[Adam Caramon]

I think that is bullshit. You took two particular examples and put your own spin on them.

You asked what the difference was, I was trying to provide an explanation. You may not agree with the explanation, but I'm not sure why you're getting worked up about it.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I see that Accessblaster, Rodmc and Vassago agree that a tattoo is a handicap, in that the tattoed person has to be way more talented to stand a chance of getting hired.

I don't know if that is the case, I suspect that excessive tattoos and piercing will rule you out in some circumstances, as would turning up in jeans and T-shirt.

Brian

 

[Vassago]

Firstly to your own body by not defacing it, and secondly to your employer who not only wants you to do be good at your job but to be seen to be good.

Are you makng this statement out of religious reference? If so, maybe it's because my body is my temple, that I should decorate the walls?

I think Adam already covered this perfectly. How can you feel I am defacing my body, but when a woman pierces her ears, it is lovely and acceptable? You only see a difference because you were TAUGHT a difference. The same is true with your definition of "seen to be good." I'm glad my company doesn't have such a narrow view as you do. This is also true for all of these examples:

When some see a girl with a piercing in her tongue some think it is a positive statement. Others think, .

Bikies have Tattoos to scare people and to be one of the gang.

These are learned behaviors and prejudices, I don't fault you for them, but I hope you find ways to overcome such a narrow way of thinking.

People everywhere dress to make a statement or to suit the weather, or perhaps for religious reasons.

This one is of particular interest to me. Did you know there were recognized religions dedicated to the practice of body modification? What about cultural reasons? The Native American tribe that my blood is mainly composed of had a rich tradition of stretching ear lobes. By following a cultural trend, that makes me seen as "bad?"

If you (said generally for anyone with this feeling) feel that tattoos and piercings speak in any way about the work ability and work ethic of the individual wearing them. Very soon you'll be surprised to see yourself grouped with the "old man screaming at the kids to stay off the lawn" crowd as previously mentioned by the majority of society. I hope you'll find a way to open your mind to newer ideals before you are left in the dust.

 

[Brianwarnock]

You asked what the difference was, I was trying to provide an explanation. You may not agree with the explanation, but I'm not sure why you're getting worked up about it.

I didn't realise that saying your explanation and examples were bullshit meant that I was getting worked up.

Brian

 

[Vassago]

I see that Accessblaster, Rodmc and Vassago agree that a tattoo is a handicap, in that the tattoed person has to be way more talented to stand a chance of getting hired.

Brian

I don't know how you came to THAT conclusion... I definitely don't agree with that and never once mentioned anything remotely like that. Maybe you are interpreting something to suit your own narrow views?

 

[Adam Caramon]

I didn't realise that saying your explanation and examples were bullshit meant that I was getting worked up.

I guess that's a cultural difference then? Maybe that's where a lot of these misunderstandings are coming from. For example, if I disagreed with someone or thought their argument was wrong, I would say "I disagree", or "that's not accurate", etc. In other words, keep it courteous, professional.

 

[Vassago]

Closer to 50% of individuals in America 21 to 40 have a tattoo according to many polls online, while overall studies in America show 15% of the tested population. If that doesn't speak volumes about the rate of change, I don't know what does.

I guess half of all 21 to 40 year olds are simply rebellious and want to be viewed as bad.

 

[Brianwarnock]

....
If you (said generally for anyone with this feeling) feel that tattoos and piercings speak in any way about the work ability and work ethic of the individual wearing them. .

That is not really the point, employers also select people on numerous criteria, one of which is will they fit in, or whatever term you want to use.

The firm I worked for for most of my career would not have employed me if I had turned up with a beard, when I did grow one after being there about 10 years I was asked to explain why, I pointed out that with my beard growth I tended to have a 5 o'clock shadow by mid day and this looked scruffy at conferences and thought that a trimmed beard would be better. I have now had it 40 years andthey of course don't course the same problem.

I expect the same will happen with piercings and tattoos aslong as they are not excessive, which is of course subjective.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

I don't know how you came to THAT conclusion... I definitely don't agree with that and never once mentioned anything remotely like that. Maybe you are interpreting something to suit your own narrow views?

I based it on the fact that you said that the posts where they implied it, were useful. I assumedthat this meant that you agreed with them.

On what are you basing your opinion that my views are narrow ?

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

I think that I have misunderstood this thread, I thought that we were discussing employers' rights to employ who they want based on whether the applicant wore piecings or tattoos, not whether we as individuals approved or liked them or otherwise.

My mistake.

Brian

 

[rodmc]

I see that Accessblaster, Rodmc and Vassago agree that a tattoo is a handicap, in that the tattoed person has to be way more talented to stand a chance of getting hired.

I don't know if that is the case, I suspect that excessive tattoos and piercing will rule you out in some circumstances, as would turning up in jeans and T-shirt.

Brian

Yes, it does mean you would be disadvantaged but I would still take the view that it is wrong to take such a view, but even then there are varying degree's of what would be acceptable as someone already mentioned, for example having a swastika on your forehead (granted, an extreme one).

 

[Brianwarnock]

Yes, it does mean you would be disadvantaged but I would still take the view that it is wrong to take such a view, but even then there are varying degree's of what would be acceptable as someone already mentioned, for example having a swastika on your forehead (granted, an extreme one).

So you and I are in agreement, and nowhere have I said that I agree with the prejudice, only that it will happen. I said on an early post that that is life, we can legislate out the obvious discrimination, but other forms exist.

Brian

 

[rodmc]

So you and I are in agreement, and nowhere have I said that I agree with the prejudice, only that it will happen. I said on an early post that that is life, we can legislate out the obvious discrimination, but other forms exist.

Brian

Certainly!