Are you an atheist?

[dan-cat]

"The Earth is around 4,500,000,000 years old.
Homo Sapiens have been around for about 200,000 years.
So what was God doing for the other 4,499,800,000 years?"

I have an answer to that.
What's billions of years to God?
You plant an acorn and see an oak tree years later.
All part of the overall plan.

What is more likely to you?

A being that has been around for 0.0044% of Earth's existence has either

a) Managed to grasp the fundamental mechanics of how the cosmos has come to be

or

b) Created a comforting belief system that defines that being as the focal point of the cosmos.

 

[Bladerunner]

Quote: Galaxiom:
"The God hypothesis runs into trouble immediately because it starts with the proposition that the most complex thing in the Universe was here first. There is no satisfactory explanation for the origin of that complex entity."

Are you talking about Man here?

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner]

 

[Bladerunner]

What is more likely to you?

A being that has been around for 0.0044% of Earth's existence has either

a) Managed to grasp the fundamental mechanics of how the cosmos has come to be

or

b) Created a comforting belief system that defines that being as the focal point of the cosmos.

The being we are talking about created the heavens and earth. A little older than a few thousand years.

have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[dan-cat]

The being we are talking about created the heavens and earth. A little older than a few thousand years.

have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

So you believe that radiometric dating is unreliable?

 

[Libre]

That is not a valid comparison with the nature of reality.

Galaxiom: as someone that appears to value logic and reason, you must be aware that simply stating that an argument is invalid is not a refutation of that argument.
But this is beside the point.
Most of my life I've had pretty much the same attitude that you expressed.
My concept of God is not exactly spiritual, and it is
DEFINITELY not biblical.
It is more that the organization of our universe - the known one at
least, implies an intelligence to me.
If you saw a table with a bunch of scrabble tiles arranged on it, and you read what it said, and you saw this exact paragraph written out, would it not be an absurd conclusion to propose that someone had just scattered the tiles without any thought and they happened to be arranged just so? Or would you propose that someone must have arranged them to form these sentences?
If there are more variations on a chess board after just several moves
than there are atoms in the universe (I've heard it said - and it may
not be literally true but it is in spirit), then the likelihood of
this paragraph occurring by random chance is so close to zero that
random chance could not account for it.
The actual universe is far more complex - and who says it started out with this complexity anyway? A life form - especially a multicellular one - especially an intelligent one, is a trillion times more complex than this paragraph or any chess position. A blade of grass has far more going on than the most complicated supercomputer ever conceived of.
But this goes deeper.
Is there a higher intelligence or is there not?
Nobody really knows now, do we? The physicists and the theologians may disagree fundamentally, but neither of them can prove their position. They can only rely on logic or faith, and neither of them can convince the other.
There is simply no proof one way or the other.
For the same buck as believing there is no God, you can just as well
believe there IS one.
And for whatever reason, believing is comforting.

 

[youyiyang]

Had we kill the Emperor, there would have been no peace. The way they did it has provided almost 70 years without a war. Of course China is pushing things and before long there will be some kind of a skirmish between China and Japan in that area. All because China feels that the USA presence is not to be feared anymore. Just like the liberals want it... let the world go to hell and we will keep to ourselves. Obama has already let them take some off-shore land (around the Philippines) from us without a word. What is next.

Have a nice Day :>)

Bladerunner

Yes, Japanese politics has been changed much from WWII and the major power has changed to Prime Minister not the Emperor any more. And I also don't know if Japanese will still do kamikaze practices today.
And I totally agree with Galaxiom that the Emperor should have been tried for war crimes and executed because the war command was sent from the Emperor directly so he should had been paid for that.
I admit USA is a great country of justice and it still govern the world today. But as any powers that have been existing in this planet in history, there are always injustice and shadows behind them, so that is why China struggles for. And I believe our planet is changing to a good direction that every country will have a right position in this world.
Since China is changing by the power of USA then why USA cannot be changed by other countries outside it?

 

[Mihail]

@youyiyang
Thank you for the answer.
Unfortunately I can't ask more because I don't know more.
Thank you again !

@Libre

I have an answer to that.
What's billions of years to God?

We can calculate this:
God Time: Gt = infinite
Earth Time: Et = 4,500,000,000
Percentage Et from Gt: EtGt% = Et/Gt * 100 % = 4,500,000,000 / infinite = 0 (zero) %
So, in ZERO time the God do His job.
But, in ZERO time nothing can be done.

Lets take a mathematical look to the Universe.
If the universe has a finite age will obtain again ZERO for the creation time (by a God)
In order to avoid this we should accept that even the Universe age is infinite.
Now we have (Ut = Universe time):
UtGt% = Ut/Gt * 100 % = infinite / infinite = ?????
a) If Ut < Gt then the limit is (again) Zero
b) If Ut > Gt then the limit is infinite. That mean that a God need a infinite numbers of year to create something = never;
Anyway this is obviously: Because the God is "younger" than the Universe He can't create something that already exists
c) So, mathematically, we must analyze one more possibility:
If Ut = Gt then the limit is 1 (One).
Now the answer seems to be reasonable, and the interpretation is: The Universe and the God are born at the same time. Each one create the other one and this reciprocal creation will exist as long as both (Universe and the God) will exist. So... for the infinite time. In other words the Creation never start and never end.

@Libre (again)
About your sand:

The probability is very small, indeed, but exist (it is greater than zero).
The Universe, Nature, God bla bla tried, as I demonstrate, fore infinite to arrange the sand.
So, the whole probability to obtain anything is... infinite. So, should be an infinite number of civilizations like ours. So should be an infinite numbers of civilizations identically with ours. So, at this time, another infinite numbers of guys writ an answer for an infinite numbers of poster that are named "Libre" )

How do you like this "demonstration" ?????????????

 

[nanscombe]

What is more likely to you?

A being that has been around for 0.0044% of Earth's existence has either

a) Managed to grasp the fundamental mechanics of how the cosmos has come to be

or

b) Created a comforting belief system that defines that being as the focal point of the cosmos.

"It is the work of God" is an easier phrase to admit to than "I don't know". But once you start to understand things for yourself then God starts to be replaced with facts.

The being we are talking about created the heavens and earth. A little older than a few thousand years.

have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

The Earth has been proven to have been around for approximately 4,500,000,000 years.

Evidence has been found to show that Man has been around for about 200,000 years.

As far as I am aware any evidence to show the hand of an omnipotent being, that stands up to scrutiny, has yet to be found.

Even if the Earth were formed and seeded with life by a technologically advanced species doesn't make them gods.

Two thousand years ago we were unable to restore sight to people, revive people after they were clinically dead, help barren women to conceive.

Would those acts now make us gods in the eyes of the people living in biblical times?

 

[Rabbie]

This point has been raised earlier but not yet answered. Where did God come from? It seems to be dodging the question just to say "This universe is too complex to have just evolved. It must have been created by someone who we will call God". Until you can explain where God came from then this is not a satisfactory answer.

 

[nanscombe]

... Until you can explain where God came from then this is not a satisfactory answer.

Once you have established who, and what, God is. You then ask yourself ... Who created God?

 

[Rabbie]

Once you have established who, and what, God is. You then ask yourself ... Who created God?

Exactly

It seems to become rather recursive. We have no way of knowing what happened before the Big Bang about 14 Billion years ago so why worry about it.

What concerns me more are the people that believe that everything was created about 10,000 years ago. I have seen reports that indicate that over 40% of US citizens believe this. If it were true then that particular god has a somewhat warped sense of humour. Why did he create so much evidence for a much older planet if that was the case. The really spooky bit was creating distant galaxies complete with light already most of the way towards us.

 

[Bladerunner]

So you believe that radiometric dating is unreliable?

No, I believe that science in the end will show that there is a God. The question I ask each of you to explain :Why is there anything and how did it come into existence?
There is only one answer and yes, God is older than the Universe(s). My world view (Theist).

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[dan-cat]

No, I believe that science in the end will show that there is a God.

You've lost me. How does

The being we are talking about created the heavens and earth. A little older than a few thousand years.

tally with the accuracy of radiometric dating?

The question I ask each of you to explain :Why is there anything and how did it come into existence?
There is only one answer and yes, God is older than the Universe(s). My world view (Theist).

The truth does not require our explanation of it. It does not become something else because it remains beyond our capacity to demonstrate.

That is what the theist does. The theist demands answers now and fills the gaps with the undetectable. Comforting but not necessarily true.

 

[Dick7Access]

This point has been raised earlier but not yet answered. Where did God come from? It seems to be dodging the question just to say "This universe is too complex to have just evolved. It must have been created by someone who we will call God". Until you can explain where God came from then this is not a satisfactory answer.

The Bible says that God always was, so the answer is God did not come from anywhere. Now, if someone doesn't believe the Bible then that is not a satisfactory answer. However if someone doesn't believe the Bible there is a good chance they don't believe there is a (g)od, so then the question is moot.

 

[nanscombe]

The Bible is probably (at best, and IMHO) a translation, of a translation, of a translation, of a man's interpretation of the words of a mythical being who's existence has been neither proved nor disproved.

To see the Bible as the word of God would definitely require faith.

 

[Rabbie]

No, I believe that science in the end will show that there is a God. The question I ask each of you to explain :Why is there anything and how did it come into existence?
There is only one answer and yes, God is older than the Universe(s). My world view (Theist).

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

Does there actually have to be a reason why there is anything? There just is and the process can be described by scientists. To conjure some mystic entity called god that created everything is just a way of saying you don't know the answer. There is no evidence for god. This is justified by believers by saying it is a matter of faith. With solid evidence there would be no need for faith

 

[Bladerunner]

=nanscombe;1326255]"It is the work of God" is an easier phrase to admit to than "I don't know". But once you start to understand things for yourself then God starts to be replaced with facts.
The Earth has been proven to have been around for approximately 4,500,000,000 years.
Evidence has been found to show that Man has been around for about 200,000 years.
As far as I am aware any evidence to show the hand of an omnipotent being, that stands up to scrutiny, has yet to be found.
Even if the Earth were formed and seeded with life by a technologically advanced species doesn't make them gods.

Two thousand years ago we were unable to restore sight to people, revive people after they were clinically dead, help barren women to conceive.

Would those acts now make us gods in the eyes of the people living in biblical times?

*Can we restore sight: Yes but they would need surgery, etc.. Jesus did this by commanding it be so and always with large crowds present.

* Help barren women to conceive, Yes. Again we need surgery, etc. Jesus only needed to command it so and he did this with huge crowds present..

*Revive people who are clinically dead. Ah, a play on words here.. 'Clinically dead'. The heart stops. No respirations . Dilated Pupils, death in other organ begins within minutes after the heart has stopped. Brain death begins within 5 to 10 minutes after blood flow has stopped. Within a few hours, Rigor mortis sets in and the decay of the body begins almost immediately. YES, we can keep them on a respirator, put them on a heart pump where the blood flow would continue indefinitely (would not need a heart), feed them via IV, etc.. Of course we have to keep them sedated during this time.

The one thing we cannot do is: if the Brain is dead, we cannot revive it by any means. The spark (soul) has left the body!

Lazarus of Bethany was four days dead (rem, in Biblical times). Yet, he was resurrected by Jesus within minutes with a large crowd watching.

*******
To answer you question: NO they would not call us Gods!
*******
Remember this:

The MAN that performed those miracles was born of a human body and walked among us here on earth for a brief period of time.

All he and his father ask is that you believe in them. Nothing more!

Your Choice!

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[nanscombe]

All based on stories from a book by an unknown author which has been altered time and time again.

 

[Bladerunner]

You've lost me. How does



tally with the accuracy of radiometric dating?



The truth does not require our explanation of it. It does not become something else because it remains beyond our capacity to demonstrate.

That is what the theist does. The theist demands answers now and fills the gaps with the undetectable. Comforting but not necessarily true.

What am I demanding of you? I thought this was a debate. simple.

What does your 'radiometric dating' date to say there is no God! that is what I don't understand. If he has never been seen by man , at least in the physical form, how can you date him by any means?

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

This point has been raised earlier but not yet answered. Where did God come from? It seems to be dodging the question just to say "This universe is too complex to have just evolved. It must have been created by someone who we will call God". Until you can explain where God came from then this is not a satisfactory answer.

No more than you can tell where all that matter that was needed for the big bang to happen? We both get to one point and can go no further.

It all comes down to Logic and Faith!

There is one difference. Jesus (the human son of God) walked on earth among men.

Again Your Choice!

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner