Are you an atheist? (25 Viewers)

[Frothingslosh]

Yeah, the American South (basically the southern third of the country, from Arizona to Georgia) is generally very, very strongly conservative and very very religious. A large part of that region is called the Bible Belt for a reason. Interestingly, Florida is little like the rest of the South thanks to all the northerners who retire there and the larger-than-normal minority population.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Hmm...just to be fair, the North has its own fair share of far-right, AR-15 toting, Bible-thumping, nitwits who have bought into every lie Faux News has ever put out there, from "Obama's a Kenyan Muslim" to "trickle-down works", including both my uncle (who will only be happy when all black and Hispanic people in the world are dead) and my neighbor (who has a Don't Tread on Me flag hanging from his balcony most days, and drives a truck with a "Don't Re-Nig: Romney/Ryan 2012" bumper sticker.

 

[Bladerunner]

I watched this last night and Believe I will bow out of the debate on this thread. I see very quickly, I am outclassed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8MzPmkNsgU

Bladew

 

[ConnorGiles]

I watched this last night and Believe I will bow out of the debate on this thread. I see very quickly, I am outclassed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8MzPmkNsgU

Bladew

You have said you would bow out of a few threads but have proceeded to post on them.

As for your earlier post, well I just think it won't be worth trying to reason with you as I fear my time typing would be wasted As Brian has said, No point trying to reason with someone who has a closed mind.

Trying to write inside a closed book, if you will.

 

[Galaxiom]

I watched this last night and Believe I will bow out of the debate on this thread. I see very quickly, I am outclassed.

Maybe you could help out your fellow worshipper on the Genesis vs Evolution thread.

http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=274776&page=4

After all you have thousands of reasons why Evolution can be dismissed and Alter2Ego is having trouble coming up with anything sensible.

darwinism (evolution) is false and has been shown to be false. Whether the church accepted darwonism (evolution) does not really matter. I can give you thousands of examples (facts) where evolution is not present.

 

[Bladerunner]

This guy is good....... I mean real good........... Even your main atheist is throwing out things that this guy is shooting down. sorry for the pun.

Galaxiom will like him, he seems to be on his level talking about the universe and all the little (quantum) that go with it.

▶ The God Debate: Hitchens vs. D'Souza - YouTube

 

[ConnorGiles]

Listening now, Will respond once finished

 

[ConnorGiles]

Okay my first point would have to be to let you know that,

Did you know he has a criminal record in fraud? It is interesting from a moral standpoint.

Secondly thank you for showing me this video as it has re-inforced my opinion on my atheism I think you had the standpoints the wrong way round.

Everything D'Souza had said, Hitchens shot down with a smile on his face. On numerous occasions during that debate D'souza admitted his mistakes on what he had said and Hitchens made no mistake in what he had said.

One other thing is that I'm stuck on where D'Souza stands on his viewpoint? Does he believe in evolution as well as a god. Because the way I listened to him, he seemed to be rationalising Evolution and putting evolution down to the work of a god.

Another thing I noted was that he didn't take his argument from the standpoint of what he believes, but targeting what Hitchens believes putting it as "approaching him on his own ground". Why is this? Why not argue from his own ground?

I would put that down to D'Souza being intolerable on questioning his own beliefs. But even he said If we show him evidence of the big bang and so forth then his opinion would change away from a god.

Doesn't sound like faith to me, More like siding with the winner and as Hitchens said that's corrupt belief.

I am eager to hear your reply Blade.

EDIT: During audience questions, D'Souza didn't really answer the first question, During the second question he again didn't answer what was asked, Only threw blame unto Atheists via comparing death statistics.

Although obviously quite intelligent, He didn't really shoot down anything. Just tried to disprove Hitchens and fill the gap with, Only Intelligent design could have done it.

The good old, "We don't know what did it - so it must be god"

 

[Frothingslosh]

Yeah, the God of the Gaps argument is pretty much as old as mankind.

Those Christian vs Atheist debates all pretty much go the same way - the atheist makes intelligent, rational points, the believer uses misunderstanding of science and the scientific method to attack science before going all smug-faced and pushing ID, and the fundie crowds crow about the religious whackjob winning the debate despite him or her not actually winning a single point of debate.

 

[Bladerunner]

As I stated there is no sense in debating the debate that happened with people who know far more about this rift between Atheist and Theist than I or you do. As some one said 'everyone will hear what they want to hear'?

Blade

 

[ConnorGiles]

Yeah, the God of the Gaps argument is pretty much as old as mankind.

Those Christian vs Atheist debates all pretty much go the same way - the atheist makes intelligent, rational points, the believer uses misunderstanding of science and the scientific method to attack science before going all smug-faced and pushing ID, and the fundie crowds crow about the religious whackjob winning the debate despite him or her not actually winning a single point of debate.

Actually D'Souza does have a more than rational understanding of science, But I just cannot understand how people can say that Hitchens didn't destroy (meaning that he dominated) that debate.

As I stated there is no sense in debating the debate that happened with people who know far more about this rift between Atheist and Theist than I or you do. As some one said 'everyone will hear what they want to hear'?

I've more then accepted your point of view, and I have asked you many questions in regards to the video you have shared, but just disregarding the questions will not help your case in the slightest.

 

[ConnorGiles]

Another thing,

D'souza speaks about there being a clear line between Rationality and Instinct.

This is no way makes sense, Animals at a basic level have feelings as well as us. They do not do everything on instinct alone.

Rationality takes place within most animals, For example:

(Lion) That Elephant is the biggest one I've ever seen, But it also has the biggest tusks. I'm probably best off not attacking it.

Rationality and Instinct are very much part of everyday life, and could be classed as the same thing. Common sense (Terminology for rationality) is in your every day life as much as many animals. Just because doing something doesn't benefit you, doesn't mean you won't do it. In an ever changing economy, Common courtesy has become a big thing. Respect also being a big thing.

D'souza claims that if Rationality was the same as instinct - When an old lady got on a bus, we wouldn't move since it benefited us in no way.

That is where common courtesy and respect comes into play, It is not only seen in humans but many animals also. My pet dog (Jessie) she died about a year ago - We have 4 other dogs, She became very Ill in her last few months (She was 17 so she had a long run for a border collie). Our other 4 dogs would protect her in her slumber and if one of the other dogs started to get boisterous with her, the other dogs would fight the boisterous one away due to the respect they had for her. This was beautiful and showed me what intellectual creatures animals are and that they are capable of compassion and respect.

Last part, D'souza continued to point out the massive lack of evidence in the evolutionists theories, but comes from a standpoint which requires no evidence at all and has no evidence at all.

I would like another debate to take place in which D'souza shares his point of view and Hitchens can debate from his standpoint. See the roles reversed. Doubtful it will happen as D'Souza seemed to give everything he had there but to no avail.

 

[KenHigg]

(Lion) That Elephant is the biggest one I've ever seen, But it also has the biggest tusks. I'm probably best off not attacking it.

Somebody has either been hitting the sauce a wee bit much or they need to cancel their subscription to the cartoon network...

 

[Frothingslosh]

Better examples of rationality would be pets learning to open doors, things like that. I have a cat who can turn on water faucets (as long as they have a lever instead of knobs), and who knows that my laser pointer causes the bright red bug she likes to chase around the apartment. I had a roommate once whose cat really could open doors...and he would actually pet you back when you were petting him.

 

[KenHigg]

Better examples of rationality would be pets learning to open doors, things like that. I have a cat who can turn on water faucets (as long as they have a lever instead of knobs), and who knows that my laser pointer causes the bright red bug she likes to chase around the apartment. I had a roommate once whose cat really could open doors...and he would actually pet you back when you were petting him.

While we're at it we should register them for obama care and to vote...

 

[Frothingslosh]

While we're at it we should register them for obama care and to vote...

Heh.

It's kind of freaky, how smart those two cats are. It's kind of a shame they're both fixed - I'm half convinced any kittens born of those two would have been able to talk!

 

[KenHigg]

Heh.

It's kind of freaky, how smart those two cats are. It's kind of a shame they're both fixed - I'm half convinced any kittens born of those two would have been able to talk!

Probably be like kids - spend a couple years teaching them to talk then spend the next 20 trying to get them to shut up

 

[Galaxiom]

This guy is good....... I mean real good........... Even your main atheist is throwing out things that this guy is shooting down. sorry for the pun.

You set the bar very low for "shooting down" when it comes to a religious claim.

All you bloke needs to do is speak and you accept he has provided a valid rebuttal. Then you don't bother to hear Hitchens's subsequent reply.

Choose what you believe was the strongest point made in favour of God in the debate and post it here.

I don't expect you will because I have asked you over and over to choose a particular case and you never do it. You are more content avoiding any critiques of your faith.

 

[ConnorGiles]

Better examples of rationality would be pets learning to open doors, things like that. I have a cat who can turn on water faucets (as long as they have a lever instead of knobs), and who knows that my laser pointer causes the bright red bug she likes to chase around the apartment. I had a roommate once whose cat really could open doors...and he would actually pet you back when you were petting him.

Not even going to bother with Ken

Needs to get up on the right side of the bed once in a while Or get coffee on a drip.

But in reply to your comment, My dogs are exactly the same - Opening doors, We have brought 4 stair gates so far and each one has different opening mechanisms.

Every darn time the male finds out how to open it and shows the females. No privacy with my dogs haha.

He watches you open it, and tries to replicate the way you open it with his mouth. (He's a tall dog, I've probably told you before , Caucasian Ovcharka's)

 

[KenHigg]

Not even going to bother with Ken

Needs to get up on the right side of the bed once in a while Or get coffee on a drip.

Glad to realize you've met your match

Odd how you bash people with religious faith then dream up and believe something as absurd as the lion thing...

and... what does 'get coffee on a drip' mean