Biofuels vs. Gasoline

[The_Doc_Man]

This little article is the perfect example of how government policy-makers should NEVER be allowed to make policy until they have studied science.

You would have to agree that the concept of biofuels as a source of renewable energy sounds good, right? But the collateral effects overwhelm the benefit if the biofuel is corn-based. I knew the basic chemistry but didn't consider the collateral effects of farming. Short answer: Relying on corn-based biofuels is a mistake of the highest order. It gives the appearance of doing something good but when you take production costs and agricultural costs into account, we get a net 2% carbon benefit over a period of 28 years. At that rate, presuming that the greenhouse gas studies from 2005 are 100% correct, we just blew 16 1/2 years for a minuscule effect.

 

[JonXL]

I had read somewhere that the benefit of ethanol was actually negative (i.e., worse than regular fossil fuel).

Not that this should surprise anyone. Environmental policy, like most policy, is almost always more feel-good than do-good. And even when the evidence later comes in, those feelings can be a powerful override to the facts at hand.

 

[sonic8]

I had read somewhere that the benefit of ethanol was actually negative (i.e., worse than regular fossil fuel).

Keep in mind that the problem is not using ethanol in general, but using ethanol produced from corn.
In Europe ethanol biofuel is primarily produced from wheat and sugar beets, which is more energy and carbon efficient than using corn. - Even though still not as good as most people might think.
Producing ethanol from plant waste and undemanding plants (e.g., switchgrass, as mentioned in the video) has a vastly better energy and carbon balance.

 

[Galaxiom]

Burning food as fuel makes no sense especially when the fertilisers and production energy is coming from fossil fuels.
I believe using vegetable oil as biodiesel is even worse than ethanol.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Not to mention ethanol wreaks havoc on my (3) small engines, oops did I say that?

 

[ColinEssex]

I always thought the USA was self sufficient in oil, that's why its so cheap and you can run those massive 5 litre engine gas guzzlers. In the UK we pay around $7 a gallon for petrol. How much is it in the USA?
We get the impression you dig a hole in the USA and strike oil - like the Beverly Hillbillies did.
Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Col, as usual, the image you get is somewhat distorted by "entertainment" programs whose writers oversimplify everything.

Usually when we dig a hole in south Louisiana, it has to go very deep to find oil - if there IS any at that spot - but finding sub-surface water isn't hard at all. If you can find a salt dome, you have hopes of finding oil. Forty+ years ago I worked for a company that supplied navigation computers to oil companies that did seismic surveys of the floor of the Gulf of Mexico. They would use a compressed-air "cannon" to generate an acoustic pulse and would capture the echoes to generate a 3-D image of subsurface strata using some really complex math. (That's how they found the "domes.")

Our computer was tied into the cannon's discharge switch, so when they were capturing echoes, we were capturing position data from various satellites and surface-based transponders. If we could get as many as four different position reference sources, we could easily determine the ship's position anywhere in the northern and central Gulf of Mexico to within 1 meter of being exact. The southern gulf didn't have as many usable transponders for position signals so we were more limited there. At the time, the U.S.Navy satellites only presented the ultra-precise positioning signals on an encrypted channel, so we couldn't get closer than a meter.

However, since oil domes are considerably bigger than one meter in diameter, 1-meter resolution wasn't a barrier to success. The REAL barrier is that the survey ships might have to shoot over 10,000 shots (100 shots on a side in a square pattern) to do a gross initial survey of one part of a particular plot for which they had the oil rights, and then come back to do a more precise run in any promising areas. But most of those plots came up empty. It was very time-consuming and was recognized as a gamble to buy an oil plot.

As to petrol for 7$ per gallon? Our USA oil prices are creeping up. We have some places with $5 or $6 per gallon, and further escalation of prices is predicted. I drive a mini-van but I got the smaller engine because I'm not going to tow anything with it, just haul smaller stuff, usually either groceries or cleaning supplies, either of which we buy in bulk. My mini-V is not a gas guzzler. South Louisiana, because it is so physically close to many refineries, has cheaper gas than some parts of the USA because we don't have to incur huge long-distance distribution costs. But we are feeling the pain, too.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Politics is all about how something looks. It is NEVER about actual results. One of my hopes for electing a businessman as president was a movement toward more fiscal responsibility and ensuring that programs actually produce the projected results. Trump tried by reducing regulations but he had so much of a headwind, he couldn't make any real progress.

Looks like switchgrass for ethanol is a no brainer. Why would we not switch? I'd ask Monsanto.

 

[ColinEssex]

My reference to dig a hole and find oil was tongue in cheek. I am also aware that the Beverly Hillbillies is a Hollywood comedy show.
The main point I was making was how self sufficient is the USA on oil?

I had to laugh at your reference to a mini van, in American terms that probably means it is around 4 litre engine, tyres the size of a lorry and a healthy 8 miles per gallon.

Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Maybe more like 24+ miles per gallon. Not superior - but not like those sports cars that you would be lucky to get 18 mpg. AND it will burn biofuel up to 15% by volume of gasoline.

My tires are the size of a more or less standard passenger car. Sorry for my ignorance on this one, but ... how big is a lorry?

 

[ColinEssex]

A lorry is the British word for what you call a truck. A truck in the UK is a railway wagon carrying stone or whatever. Also, remember your gallon is not the same as a UK gallon.
Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

OK, my mini-van has the same wheelbase as what WE call a small pickup truck. Your railway wagon is a "rail car" for us. Your Imperial gallon is about 1.2 U.S. gallons, so our prices are at least in a similar range.