Another mass shooting

[Thales750]

@Thales750 where is @jpl458 and what have done with him?

You know he is a double agent. We can't have that.

 

[Thales750]

Is English your native language?

Well, I am from Texas.
So, there is that.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Some Hezbollah flags on campus

 

[Thales750]

Some Hezbollah flags on campus

View attachment 113856
View attachment 113857

It's a real shame that Iran has been allowed to continued pushing the envelope. They are absolutely a clear and present danger to the security of the entire western world. They out played Israel in this last round. It's hard to imagine that they could play into the hearts and minds of Americans.
At a time when we (humans) are making great strides in every field, despots are still in power. Maybe it's time for the West to reexamine our position on not killing foreign leaders.

 

[AccessBlaster]

...They out played Israel in this last round.

How so?

 

[Thales750]

How so?

They (Iran) new exactly how Israel would react. With all the extra dead bodies. People, Iran were perfectly willing to sacrifice. Hopeful even.

Being the United States, we have more discretion because of our shear size and ability to project power. Israel has limited options. They did what the thought was necessary. The thousands of dead noncombatants has not played well around the world. And rightly not.

it didn't need to be that way. In the propaganda wars Israel failed, and Netanyahu looks like a war criminal.

 

[Thales750]

How about the massacred Israeli civilians from Oct 7th? Doesn't anyone care about those people? How about the women who were ra*** in front of their family members? Do we care about them?

Israel has bent over backwards to AVOID killing civilians. The pansy's of Hamas hide behind the skirts of women and the carriages of children and the beds of hospital patients because they KNOW that Israel will not wantonly kill civilians. However, Hamas and Hezbollah TARGET civilians. And you are on their side??? OK. We know exactly what you are.

And yet, Iranian propaganda, has been successful. I was making an observation and about the effects of the spin. And you can't help but believe that I am blaiming Israel. In the first days of the retaliation, Israel gave up the perception of moral superiority.
Iran is an enemy of the world. Everyone should see that.
Why don't they?

 

[Thales750]

This attack was personal. Your next door neighbor who hates you and who openly calls for the death of you and your entire family came into your house armed to the teeth in the early hours of the morning while you were having breakfast with your wife and children by breaking down your door. At gunpoint they ALL ra** your wife and daughters. Then they kill your sons and they film the entire event and broadcast it live. Maybe they shoot you, maybe they don't. If they don't are you going to just walk away? Not if you're a man you're not.

Why are you calling for Israel to back off? Why are you calling for Israel to lay down and die? Why are you not calling for Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran to lay down their arms and stop the hostilities and return the hostages? I don't know if Hamas has run out of rockets yet but apparently Hezbollah and Iran have taken up the gauntlet and are still bombing Israeli CIVILIANS daily. Children are forced to play in underground bomb shelters. What kind of life can you have when hundreds of bombs fall on your country every day?

Israel will not stop and they should not stop until Hamas is wiped from the face of the earth or surrenders and agrees to actual peace. Short of that, this is a fight to the death and Israel did not start it but they will finish it or no Israeli will ever be able to sleep safely in their homes again. Put yourself in one of those Israeli homes on Oct 7th in the early hours of the morning. Sit in your chair and picture what they saw. This is not some intellectual exercise. This is very personal. I have friends who live in Israel and they are terrified.

We know what you are. You have made your position very plain. You think you have taken the good and moral position. You feel superior. But you are wrong. You are demanding that the wrong side lay down their arms.

As usual you cannot see past your cult like positons.

 

[Thales750]

When you side with the terrorists, you make your position absolutely crystal clear. You are fine with attacking civilians as they sleep. You are fine with ra**** women. You are fine with surrounding yourself with women, children, and invalids to ensure that Israel looks bad as they seek to kill you to get you to stop firing rockets as you try to kill more civilians. I get it.

You may be too busy studying propaganda but you might want to review the history of Israel and its conflicts with its neighbors, all of whom are intent on driving you into the sea. You know "from the river to the sea". That's what that means. Sweep the land clear of the Jews. Kill them all. EXACTLY - How many peace treaties has Israel signed with these untrustworthy neighbors and how many have been broken and who broke them in each case? There was a "peace" treaty in place on Oct 7th. Who broke it?

Everyone who disagrees with you seems to belong to a cult. Apparently, I now belong to two cults.

I have been a supporter of Israel since way before all this happened. But unlike you, I am open to see the big picture. Once again, Iran has outplayed Isael in the propaganda war at least with some vocal liberals.
Just like Russia has infiltrated the Trump camp.

I will repeat this for the 5th time.
Iran is the enemy of the West. Hamas has been the Iranian terrorist arm for the last 30 years.
You take my words out of context. Because in your mind only Trump supporters carry the truth.
I am a more useful Israely supporter than you are. Your rhetoric will do nothing but garner support from the extreme right. Every American should support Israel, but that does not mean supporting every one of their acts.
And you actually wonder why i call it Trump Worship.
By the way, I don't see those that disagree with me as cult members, only the ones who refuse to budge on any topic.

 

[Thales750]

If you are not as anti-Semitic as you sound, then you know that if Hamas surrenders and agrees to REAL peace that Israel would stop hostilities immediately. They would not continue the fight, much as they want to. Yet you tell Israel to lay down their arms but say nothing to Hamas? That is essentially death to Israel. What is it that you think is an actual solution because Israel backing down solves nothing and given the history of the conflict there should be no doubt in your mind that Israel backing down only gives Hamas the breathing room to rearm and attack again.

Ask yourself WHY Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Jordan and the rest of the neighbors flatly refuse to take Hamas (Gaza - but they voted for the Hamas promise to kill all the Jews. Don't make them out as innocent victims) refugees on even a temporary basis. I'll help you out. The children of Gaza have been raised from birth to be terrorists. They put on plays that depict how they will kill the Jews. They have little machine guns to use to shoot Jews. Their books teach them arithmetic by counting dead Jews. There is no way that these children will peacefully assimilate. They are terrorists in training.

When you start calling for Hamas to lay down their arms, return the remaining hostages, and surrender - then you will be supporting Israel. But instead, you call for Israel to lay down and die. I don't view that as supporting Israel. Nothing good comes out of this without Hamas actually surrendering. They are terrorists. You can't call "men" who ra** women and kill children "freedom" fighters unless you are stupid and blind to reality.

I apologize for stressing you out.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I apologize for stressing you out.

I have been hanging back on this but I have to side with Pat on this one. The Hamas attack Oct. 7th involved malicious (as opposed to accidental or secondary-to-war) murder. When there is a declared war, you expect casualties though there ARE suggested rules of war that avoid harm to people who are clearly non-combatants - like children and young, unarmed women. Hamas made it clear that they are not abiding by any civilized measures of war. They want brutality. Well, there are all sorts of ways to say this, but basically eradication of one side or the other is the only way this will ever end.

If you go by Biblical statements, Hamas fighters have done unto others and now are raising a protest that <gasp> others are doing unto them. If you go by more modern standards, what goes around comes around. Seems like war has come around. My own favorite variant is that all relationships are like mirrors - a reflection of your treatment to others.

I have to ask (as I have asked before in other threads on this same topic): When the avowed, WRITTEN, goal of your enemy is to obliterate you from the face of the Earth - and their recent actions bear out the reality of that intent,... do you not have the right to defend yourself at the same level? (HINT: IF your answer is "NO" then you need to plug your brain back in because there is a big disconnect somewhere.)

You should read some of the writings of Winston Churchill on the topic of Islam. He spoke from experience and he was not known to be a liar. If anything, he tended to be rather blunt and very direct in his pronouncements. I'll let you do the search: "Winston Churchill quotes on Islam" and see how many hits you get. The peaceful Muslims won't publicly condemn the extremists that much because of Islamic solidarity. But the militant and extreme wing of the Islamic society is riddled with hatred and when they have more political power, the world is in a bad situation.

 

[Isaac]

Down here in Texas, I hear several times every day how Biden single handedly ruined the economy. The Oil and Gas folks have to be careful with their words because they know that the US is now producing more oil and gas than anytime in history.
When Biden went got office the the O&G futures traders jacked up the prices, partially because of fear of what an embargo would do to oil prices. And, partially to damage the Biden Administration. This was some very effective propaganda. I still see memes blaming Biden for high gas prices when they are below $3.00.

Conservative anti-clean-air-folks have to curb their enthusiasm as well because Texas is the largest wind energy producer in the country.
I'm not against all the conservative policies, I'm simply against the literally insane rhetoric that spews out. This time for real I'm going back to work.

Gas is 4.50 here, still extremely expensive

 

[Thales750]

I have been hanging back on this but I have to side with Pat on this one. The Hamas attack Oct. 7th involved malicious (as opposed to accidental or secondary-to-war) murder. When there is a declared war, you expect casualties though there ARE suggested rules of war that avoid harm to people who are clearly non-combatants - like children and young, unarmed women. Hamas made it clear that they are not abiding by any civilized measures of war. They want brutality. Well, there are all sorts of ways to say this, but basically eradication of one side or the other is the only way this will ever end.

If you go by Biblical statements, Hamas fighters have done unto others and now are raising a protest that <gasp> others are doing unto them. If you go by more modern standards, what goes around comes around. Seems like war has come around. My own favorite variant is that all relationships are like mirrors - a reflection of your treatment to others.

I have to ask (as I have asked before in other threads on this same topic): When the avowed, WRITTEN, goal of your enemy is to obliterate you from the face of the Earth - and their recent actions bear out the reality of that intent,... do you not have the right to defend yourself at the same level? (HINT: IF your answer is "NO" then you need to plug your brain back in because there is a big disconnect somewhere.)

You should read some of the writings of Winston Churchill on the topic of Islam. He spoke from experience and he was not known to be a liar. If anything, he tended to be rather blunt and very direct in his pronouncements. I'll let you do the search: "Winston Churchill quotes on Islam" and see how many hits you get. The peaceful Muslims won't publicly condemn the extremists that much because of Islamic solidarity. But the militant and extreme wing of the Islamic society is riddled with hatred and when they have more political power, the world is in a bad situation

Then you misunderstood me as well.

I'm saying that Iran won this round of propaganda wars. I said it 5 time before this.

Iran is the enemy of the West.
Obviously, you are reading from my post exactly what you are expecting to read.

I already know everything you just wrote. There is no siding with pat on this. Pat is not listening to what I am saying.

 

[Thales750]

Gas is 4.50 here, still extremely expensive

Less than around $3 here.
In California?

 

[Thales750]

ar, you expect casualties though there ARE suggested rules of war that avoid harm to people who are clearly non-combatants - like children and young, unarmed women. Hamas made it clear that they are not abiding by any civilized measures of war. They want brutality. Well, there are all sorts of ways to say this, but basically eradication of one side or the other is the only way this will ever end.

If you go by Biblical statements, Hamas fighters have done unto others and now are raising a protest that <gasp> others are doing unto them. If you go by more modern standards, what goes around comes around. Seems like war has come around. My own favorite variant is that all relationships are like mirrors - a reflection of your treatment to others.

I have to ask (as I have asked before in other threads on this same topic): When the avowed, WRITTEN, goal of your enemy is to obliterate you from the face of the Earth - and their recent actions bear out the reality of that intent,... do you not have the right to defend yourself at the same level? (HINT: IF your answer is "NO" then you need to plug your brain back in because there is a big disconnect somewhere.)

You should read some of the writings of Winston Churchill on the topic of Islam. He spoke from experience and he was not known to be a liar. If anything, he tended to be rather blunt and very direct in his pronouncements. I'll let you do the search: "Winston Churchill quotes on Islam" and see how many hits you get. The peaceful Muslims won't publicly condemn the extremists that much because of Islamic solidarity. But the militant and extreme wing of the Islamic society is riddled with hatred and when they have more political power, the world is in a bad situation.

Here is a link to Mike Pompeo, he says the same things that I am. He went on to turn it into an anti Biden campaign speech but the first part is exactly what I have been saying.

There is 'no doubt' that anti-Israel protests are 'highly coordinated' across senior levels in US: Mike Pompeo | Fox News Video

Former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo weighs in on the tensions in the Middle East, the anti-Israel protests and whether there's a connection between the two.

www.foxnews.com

and this is what the President had to say

President Joe Biden says the US is 'devoted' to defending Israel and the 'Iran will not succeed'

President Joe Biden says he expects an attack on Israel by Iran "sooner rather than later," in answer to reporter questions on Friday.

apnews.com

It's not about what people believe, it's about why, and how. Look how easy it is to get millions to support things.

How can anyone support Israel and not the Ukraine or the Ukraine and not Israel?
Because they are brainwashed by the propaganda pure and simple.

Iran and Russia are lead by anti Western despots. We (the West) should kill them, then our propaganda will prevail.

 

[AccessBlaster]

At some point Isreal will have to deal with Iran, fighting with Iran's proxies is a distraction from the real threat.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

At some point Isreal will have to deal with Iran, fighting with Iran's proxies is a distraction from the real threat.

In a way, that is why we should continue to support Ukraine. They can be OUR proxies against Russia, which remains a threat - though thanks to continued economic consequences and emigration to avoid being drafted to the Russian arm, that problem might eventually resolve itself with yet another collapse.

 

[AccessBlaster]

In a way, that is why we should continue to support Ukraine. They can be OUR proxies against Russia, which remains a threat - though thanks to continued economic consequences and emigration to avoid being drafted to the Russian arm, that problem might eventually resolve itself with yet another collapse.

While I don't disagree with your analysis, I will say we can't PRINT our way out of this mess by funding Ukraine, Israel indefinitely.

Eventually the chickens will come home to roost and we will be broke like the old soviet union.

 

[Thales750]

What you have been saying is that Israel needs to lay down its arms. That is NOT what Pompeo is saying.

Hamas needs to surrender. That will stop Israel.

I never said that or anything close. You only hear what you are looking to hear.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Less than around $3 here.
In California?

Isaacs is in Arizona