Where and what were you doing on 9/11/2001?

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@BlueSpruce, I'm sorry in my opinion but you are wrong.
A floor in any building is designed to carry its own load as well as the estimated maximum load to be placed upon the floor. Any individual floor is not designed to carry the weight of two, or more loaded floors. Many buildings, those included, would no doubt have to carry the load of banks of computers as well as other plant and equipment, desks and people. If a floor is overloaded beyond its designed capacity it will fail. I would imagine that there would be maximum stated loadings that can be stored on floors in high rise buildings.

Even with titanium beams these principles apply. It may be that the section size of titanium beams is different to steel but they will not be so large as to allow double or higher weight supporting capabilities. Titanium and steel have different properties but titanium will only be used as a substitute where design dictates and costs allow.
In this scenario, from memory there were over 100 floors, so it is inconceivable that even one floor could support the weight of another dropping maybe ten or fifteen feet with the supporting steel, floor weight, walls, plant and equipment, plus people. The floor it drops onto is also bound to fail and so on. The only way to prevent collapse would be to have supporting walls, or propping from top to bottom which would probably be impractical and add too much costs.
 
I totally forgot about the bombing at the WTC in 1993. I worked on 5th Ave. at the time.
 
Stronger, lighter, better - all comparatives, not superlatives. Reduces the odds of collapses. Doesn't eliminate the possibility.
 
What was I doing on 9/11? I was doing a barn conversion to create a training centre for our rapidly expanding business.

I was there to review progress and answer ‘where do you want this’ type questions. The news came through the builders radios around 4pm.

Much of our business was with international companies and around 80% was serviced around the world in locations in the US, far east and Europe.

Two or three days later most of our clients cancelled future commitments due to the no fly situation. We lost around £400k of future revenue and regrettable the business couldn’t survive.
 
Wow ... that's sad, sorry you went through that . New businesses are delicate. Did you end up restarting the business in some way later?
 
Isaac said:
Did you end up restarting the business in some way later?
Click to expand...
No - I went into contracting, primarily identifying and filling in the financial holes between corporate systems typically using access. Took me 3 years to recover financially and went well - until Covid😀. Now I’m semi retired, working a couple of days a week for a few smaller clients
 
At the time of the 9/11 tragedy, I was a military contractor and was considered among the "essential personnel", We had masking requirements, working from home was a no-no unless you were sick AND had a hard-wired line for the connection. When COVID rolled around, they asked us to get shots when they became available, but business-wise? Not even the slightest slow-down for me or my colleagues. If anything, business picked up because more projects wanted our group to manage things. We had a good reputation after Katrina and rode that wave pretty much through my retirement. What they are doing now? Generally more of the same but, as usual, the Navy reorganized things again and I couldn't tell you the details.
 
Sigh
Any beam steel or titanium has s specific strength dependent on section size.
A 20" beam will be stronger than a 10" beam. To obtain the strength of a 20" beam in titanium will mean that it must have the same properties. It But it may well be, that a titanium beam has a smaller section size in certain cases. But it will probably be larger. (look at a titanium cycle and compare the tube sizes compared to a steel frame) Titanium is not less likely to collapse than steel due to its lighter weight. It depends upon the loading. Additionally, you cannot consider just the section size, there is also the support of the beam with its end connections.

Your theory about titanium being less likely to collapse is totally incorrect. I have already explained floor loads and the unusual building design. If steel is to be replaced by titanium, the titanium section will be selected on its ability to replace steel. The section size may well be less that the steel equivalent but improbable.

To reiterate, in the case in question, any section, steel or titanium will not be of sufficient strength to carry two or more loaded floors. If you doubt that, calculate the floor loading from multiple floors and work out the section size required to support 100 floors. I doubt that there will be a section size available to support even two floors as well as its own. Let alone the weight of the plane, fuel and passengers.
 
The same size of beam has to be larger in titanium. As an everyday reference I referred to a cycle frame which are often made in titanium but as I explained the tube section sizes has to be larger than a steel frame. You cannot have a frame in titanium with the same tube sizes as steel. Just as you cannot replace a steel beam of the same size as steel. It has to be larger.​

Titanium can be used as a structural material equivalent to steel beams, but it requires different manufacturing processes and has distinct performance characteristics. While titanium has a high strength-to-weight ratio—being approximately 45% lighter than steel while maintaining comparable strength—it is not as strong per unit volume as high-grade steel. This means that for the same cross-sectional area, a titanium beam would generally be weaker than a steel beam. However, due to its lower density, a titanium beam can be made lighter while still achieving similar strength, though it would need to be larger in cross-section to match the load-bearing capacity of a steel beam.

Titanium is difficult to work and drill, adding more expense. Generally, only governments and the offshore oil industry are the only ones who can afford to use them. In offshore oil there are long term savings with its resistance to corrosion and not needing paint protection.

Though it has yield strength comparable to structural steel, and having weight significantly lighter, its modulus of elasticity is only half of the steel. Requiring the section to be larger and deeper to match the same deflection limit if steel is used. Though this condition varies on the design approach of the structure itself., there generally isn’t a gain of using in replace of steel. Specially the larger difference in the cost of titanium vs steel. Plus the fact that steel is hot rolled into shape and titanium beams need to be welded from plates. Basically, instead of picking something from stock you need to create each one individually.

So basically, you're not often right but you are wrong again and I am not re-explaining this again.
 
@BlueSpruce he's saying for an equivalent strength, you'd need a larger section of titanium than steel. if I understood correctly.
This doesn't make your wikipedia quote above (which refers to strength to weight ratio) wrong.
 
BlueSpruce said:
The question is, if titanium beam is 45% lighter than steel, does titanium beam cross section have to be 45% larger?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure this has been answered.
The strength-to-weight ratio, is much higher.
 
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