Access vs. ASP.Net

[myousman]

I have a supervisor who insists that it is just as easy to develop a database application in ASP.Net as it is in Access; and that anything you can do in Access, you can do with ASP.Net (with a SQL Server back end.) He asserts that for this reason Access is obsolete.

I have a good deal of experience in Access development, and have also developed some applications in ASP (but not ASP.Net.)

It is my contention that development in ASP.Net with SQL Server back end is at least an order of magnitude more difficult and time consuming. (By an order of magnitude, I mean approximately 10 times more difficult and time consuming.)

I am seeking some other viewpoints; and also, if anyone has seen any articles that address this or similar issues, if you could point them out to me.

 

[KenHigg]

Access vs ASP.net - My 2 cents...

This is like comparing apples to oranges. The core of Access's functionalty is to be a desktop database. The core of .ASP is to create dynamic web pages. You can get access to do some .ASP type stuff, like with DAP, and you can get .ASP to do some Access type stuff, like doing web based databases.

With Access, you can spend a couple hundered dolloars for the program and build something usefull in a matter of hours, never having opened a book.

With .ASP / sql, well, you really need to be a career computer person in order to have the time to learn and build a solution.

I will say that if I had the skills and resources to do .asp / sql, and I did not require a very robust front end, I might well do more of my stuff with it. But anyone who makes stements like Access is obsolete will eventually put their foot in their mouth on other issues - just bite your lip and wait them out...desktop databses are here to stay...

This is just my humble opinon, coming from a db'r that endured HyperCard, dbase3, clipper, etc...

ken

 

[myousman]

Thanks, Ken, for your reply. I agree that it is like comparing apples and oranges; and I think there is a place for both, depending on the user requirements. But how do I deal with a supervisor's unrealistic expectation that an ASP.Net/SQL Server project could be developed in the same time frame as a roughly equivalent Access project?

 

[KenHigg]

To start with, you would need to qualify the term 'Project'. There will be cases where it will be faster / better to do db stuff with .asp / sql.

I would start by to doing a system requirements document, what you want the db to do, written in plain English. Then, based on this doc, make a list of prioritized features the db will need.

Indicate which features can best be done in Access and which features can best be done in .asp / sql. Some features will work better in a desktop app, some a web based solution.

You can then make a list of the steps required to implement and maintain each kind of solution. If this exercise has been executed properly, your list of steps for each solution should overwhelmingly point to Access (provided your initial instinct was correct)...

Hope this helps...

ken

 

[Pat Hartman]

I have a supervisor who insists that it is just as easy to develop a database application in ASP.Net as it is in Access

- Challenge him to a contest.

 

[Cosmos75]

- Challenge him to a contest.

ROFL!


Pat, have you ever done anything like that?

 

[myousman]

Pat, you should know better. Supervisors are way too busy to design, code, test, deploy and maintain applications.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Pat, have you ever done anything like that?

- a long time ago - not with Access. Guess who won?

Supervisors are way too busy to design, code, test, deploy and maintain applications.

- let him put up his best Asp programmer then.

 

[Kevin_S]

Thanks, Ken, for your reply. I agree that it is like comparing apples and oranges; and I think there is a place for both, depending on the user requirements. But how do I deal with a supervisor's unrealistic expectation that an ASP.Net/SQL Server project could be developed in the same time frame as a roughly equivalent Access project?

Who is to say it couldn't be developed in roughly the same time as an Access project? It really depends on the skills of the person developing the project and the skills of the person developing the ASP page....?

Also - Visual Studio.NET 2003 makes creating simple ASP.NET pages pretty easy if you have experience... easier then it is to make pages in regular old ASP that is...

If I were creating the project for you, personally, I could make it in Access way, way faster then ASP.NET as I'm still learning ASP but... If I could do both equally well I would rather do the project in ASP.NET then Access any day...

just my 2 cents... feel free to attack with the typical "ACCESS RULES ALL" stuff...

 

[Pat Hartman]

I am a firm believer in using the right tool. Access is optimized for building database applications. I would not choose it as a word processor even though a RTF control is available for it. Nor would I choose Word if I wanted to build a spreadsheet even though Word tables support many spreadsheet functions. Access can create Web pages but it would not be my first choice as a web development tool. Access is a complete enviornment given that you can use it to build both a data store (tables) and a user interface (forms/reports), that doesn't mean that Jet is always the best solution for your tables.

Can you even build a report with Asp? I just don't see the two products as being interchangable.

 

[myousman]

I would like to respond to Kevin S. and then Pat.

Kevin, I am interested in hearing why you would rather develop in ASP.Net than Access, if you had equal experience in both.

I'd also like to comment that I don't believe an approach that requires an HTTP server (IIS), database server (SQL Server), separate reporting tool (presumably Crystal Reports); plus pages that require knowledge of HTML, VBscript, and Javascript; and has no bound controls; could ever be considered on the same order of magnitude in terms of development time, design time, and maintenance time, when compared to Access, in which all that is required is a file on a server (or two files if you use the split front end back end approach.)

I think what I am trying to say is: if you look at the project, and Access seems like it would be sufficient (i.e., less than 20 users, not distributed over a wide area), then it would be absurd to use ASP.Net/SQL Server/Crystal Reports approach. But it seems like this is precisely what the supervisor is leaning (strongly) toward.

Pat: thanks for your comments. I believe that reporting in ASP.Net would generally be accomplished with a 3rd party tool like Crystal Reports.

 

[Kevin_S]

Pat/myousman-

I was never trying to imply that ASP would/could/should always replace a client interface (be it written in Access/VB/VB.NET/C/etc... all I was trying to say is that, given the original question, I was proposing that depending on the programmer and his/her skill level it is difficult to say "this tool is faster then this tool". For example, given my knowledge of your skill as a programmer (from your posts here to the direct help I've received in the past from you ) I'm positive that you could create an application in A 97 faster then I could make one in A 2002 - now does this necessarily mean that the 97 version is better then 2002 or is it just that you are a higher skilled programmer then I am? If I had many years of experience in programming ASP and myousman just bought his first copy of Access is it not concievable that I coul probably build a well put together application to meet his bosses needs better then he could with Access...? even though he was using Access and I was using ASP.NET w/Crystal Reports..? Side note also - myousman, you make a valid point in saying that the process is more complicated in ASP then Access but its gotten a whole lot easy in binding data providers and recordsets to controls then in the past...

To reiterate, I agree that Access is a good RAD tool and that, in the hands of two equally skilled programmers Access is faster but sometimes faster isn't better in the long run too....

One other thing to consider: If you plan on staying in an area where you are always working with MS Office then developing in Access may work for you however, I do not find the job market very strong for Access programmers (at least in the Midwest USA) and the pay rate for Access programming jobs was far less then VB.NET and web languages... Most companies see Access as a "toy" and do not give credit to its usefulness (Pat I think you can back me on this one as I've read in your posts on this board that you've run into this before...) I don't believe the hype but when your looking to move up its hard to fight the misconceptions... I'm currently working on MCAD cert. in VB.NET and migrating away from MS Access but I still have a soft spot for Access and this forum!

Actually, maybe my hang up is I've been around mission2java to much on the VB Forum boards

Have a good one!
Kev