Are you an atheist? (2 Viewers)

[Brianwarnock]

Doc....my apologies if I sounded like I was predicting the (Rapture/Harpozo/caught-up) prophecy to happen at a certain time.

We are within in the interval of what is called Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy (given to him by Gabriel). We have been within that interval for almost two thousand years. How much longer will we be there I do not know but by the recent

It is my opinion and belief that it will happen within my lifetime. Having said that, realistically I really do hope it does and if it does not then I will go to my grave believing in Jesus Christ. So please don't get all bent out of shape that I am predicting anything, I AM NOT.


Have a great afternoon

Blade

Surely I am not the only one who thinks that there are considerable inconsistencies here , heck the man must definitely be religious.

Brian

 

[Libre]

OK, Libre, the promise of the rainbow is about floods. Do you count a tsunami in that?

You have to read it like an insurance policy. If you're insured against floods but you get wiped out by a tsunami, the adjustor will deny your claim. You can jump up and down and say you were covered, but he will just reiterate, over and over, that floods are floods and tsunamis are tsunamis. So you'd be SOL.
Then the adjustor will kindly offer to write you a new policy that includes both floods AND tsunamis (at a much higher premium of course) that would protect you in the FUTURE - but you still can't get paid on your existing claim. And when the tsunami finally arrives someone will say it wasn't actually a tsunami, it was more a tidal-wave.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Libre, it sounds just like my investment-scheme comments earlier. (But then, there are folks who believe that insurance IS just another investment scheme scam.)

 

[Libre]

I thought your analogy was right on.
And it also explains why we Jews, who are usually savvy investors, are also often non-religious, like me. I eat the matzoh and gefilta fish but as far as the 10 plagues and the parting of the Red Sea, puhleeze.

 

[Bladerunner]

Surely I am not the only one who thinks that there are considerable inconsistencies here , heck the man must definitely be religious.

Brian

What Inconsistencies? pray tell.


Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

You have to read it like an insurance policy. If you're insured against floods but you get wiped out by a tsunami, the adjustor will deny your claim. You can jump up and down and say you were covered, but he will just reiterate, over and over, that floods are floods and tsunamis are tsunamis. So you'd be SOL.
Then the adjustor will kindly offer to write you a new policy that includes both floods AND tsunamis (at a much higher premium of course) that would protect you in the FUTURE - but you still can't get paid on your existing claim. And when the tsunami finally arrives someone will say it wasn't actually a tsunami, it was more a tidal-wave.

Hi Libre...... I like your analogy but it to is wrong. Jesus died on the cross for our sins and it is a gift to you and me. Only your belief and Love is required.
That is really a hard price to overcome yet you Atheist seem to laugh at it..

It is a gift with no strings attached. All you have to do is ask him to forgive your sins. Simple as that,,,,,,, the Choice I have always talked about. -----

No churches, not baptism, no nothing except a covenant between you and Him.

Think about it.... you can still be macho man on this forum and yet secure your eternal life. What are you afraid of.

Have a blessed day.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Libre, it sounds just like my investment-scheme comments earlier. (But then, there are folks who believe that insurance IS just another investment scheme scam.)

Hi Doc...... An investment scheme that will not cost you a dime, in fact it will not cost your anything.

Blade

 

[Libre]

Hi Libre...... I like your analogy but it to is wrong. Jesus died on the cross for our sins and it is a gift to you and me. Only your belief and Love is required.
That is really a hard price to overcome yet you Atheist seem to laugh at it..

It is a gift with no strings attached. All you have to do is ask him to forgive your sins. Simple as that,,,,,,, the Choice I have always talked about. -----

No churches, not baptism, no nothing except a covenant between you and Him.

Think about it.... you can still be macho man on this forum and yet secure your eternal life. What are you afraid of.

Have a blessed day.

Blade

Hey Blade-
I guess it has to do with the fact that we atheists evaluate the information we receive and accept it or not, based on its plausibility. We do not evaluate it based on the benefits we could receive if only we were accept the information as truth.
If I decide something is untrue, or at least highly unlikely to be true, then I can't come to the conclusion that it is in fact true, regardless of the promises of reward or threats of punishment - now or in the future.

You could give me a magic coin and tell me, if I make a wish with the magic coin in my hand, the wish will come true - and the only requirement is that I truly believe deep in my heart that the coin is really magic. I can't just SAY that it's magic, I have to actually BELIEVE that it is.

Would YOU accept that the coin is magic, because somebody (an ordinary human) told you it was?
Would you wish on the coin?
Would you truly believe in it?
And then if you wished on the coin and the wish didn't come true, you're told either:
1- it WILL come true someday
or
2- it didn't come true because you didn't REALLY believe the coin was magic

or some combination of 1 and 2. You might be told you only have to wish HARDER or believe in the coin even MORE.

To virtually ALL we atheists, that is EXACTLY what you religious folk are doing. We just CAN'T accept that there are invisible, undetectable beings who love us and who have created the universe - and who we must believe in and love so we can reap great rewards after we're dead.

Asking me to believe - it's not possible for me no matter the consequences.

 

[Galaxiom]

We are within in the interval of what is called Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy (given to him by Gabriel). We have been within that interval for almost two thousand years

Keep in mind that the (Rapture/Harpozo/caught-up) is the only prophetic event that is distinctively both unspecified and imminent. Imminent--(about to happen).

So it has been "imminent" for 2000 years which mean we have been waiting for it for one third of the age of the Universe (according to your sources.)

How much longer will you wait before you accept the prophecy is wrong?

Your religion is nothing more than a Cargo Cult. Your expected cargo is the return of Jesus. You make crucifixes and build churches instead of wooden likeness of aeroplanes but the the essence is the same.

 

[Bladerunner]

So it has been "imminent" for 2000 years which mean we have been waiting for it for one third of the age of the Universe (according to your sources.)

How much longer will you wait before you accept the prophecy is wrong?

Your religion is nothing more than a Cargo Cult. Your expected cargo is the return of Jesus. You make crucifixes and build churches instead of wooden likeness of aeroplanes but the the essence is the same.

we know of the 'decree of Ataxerxes Lonimanus' on Mar 14, 445 BC to restore Jerusalem

we know that in Daniel 9,25, Gabriel told Daniel there would be 173,880 days to the day that Jesus would enter the city of Jerusalem. 7 weeks, threescore and two weeks....

The big thing was that Daniel was translated into the Greek Septuagint 300 years before Jesus entered Jerusalem.
You do know about the Septuagint, don't you???

we Now know that Jesus entered Jerusalem on April 6, 32 AD or 173, 880 days exactly from Artaxerxes Decree.
445BC - 32 AD = 173,740 days + march 4th to April 6th = 24 days + extra leap year days of 116 =173,880 days exactly.

All of these figures are verifiable through other sources other than the Bible if you like?.

In Daniel 9,26 ( one verse more) tells us there will be a interval after three score and two weeks (62 Years) after the initial 7 weeks (years) and Jesus will be cut-off or killed.

But more......Daniel 9:26 tells us that " the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary". (This verse also sets up the coming anti-christ and where he will come form.)

And as Jesus approached Jerusalem he (Jesus) predicted (Luke 19: 42,43) the "destruction of the city completely with "no stone un-turned ".

Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by the Roman Titus and as predicted---no-stone was un-turned.

The interval is called the "Age of the Church" (the people) is set forth in order for Christians to spread the word of God throughout the world. When the (unknown to us) amount of people is fulfilled, the Rapture - Harpazo will occur and the 70th week will begin.

But so much for prophecies,,,BUT they are not existent in the Bible........

Galaxiom,,,, Yes, these years of the interim (Age of the Church)period are rapidly coming to an end. Of course that is deducted from the world situation and the biblical prophecies to come. However, as I stated, the Harpazo is 'imminent' without any other prophecy happening. The prophecies I speak of are believed to be started after the Harpazo happens.

I am sorry you do not want to know the truth nor do you really care about your after life. Even though it does not cost you anything, you still refuse the Gift given with Love and there are a lot of people on this site just like you. very very unfortunate

Have a good day

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

But one Prophecey does not make a pattern!

Ezekiel 4: 3-6

Calculations thereof;

* "The Jews would remain without an independent nation for another 2,520 biblical years from 536 B.C., the beginning point of the prediction (360 years x 7 = 2,520 years biblical years).
Ezekiel's prophecy of the 430 years declared that the end of Israel's punishment and her final restoration to the land would be accomplished in 2,520 biblical years of 360 days each which totals precisely 907,200 days. To convert this period into our calendar year of 365.25 days we simply divide the period of 907,200 days by 365.25 days to reach a total of 2,483.8 of our modern calendar years. Therefore, Ezekiel prophesied that the end of Israel's worldwide captivity would occur precisely 2,483.8 years after the end of the Babylonian Captivity which occurred in the spring of 536 B.C. In these calculations we must keep in mind that there was only one year between 1 B.C. and A.D. 1. There was no year Zero. As an illustration, there were only twelve months between the Feast of Passover on 14th of Nisan in the spring of 1 B.C. and the next annual Feast of Passover in the spring of A.D. 1.
To Calculate When Ezekiel Prophesied the Jews Would Become a Nation Again
The Babylonian captivity ended in the Spring of 536 B.C. 536.4 B.C.
MINUS The duration of Israel's captivity (from Ezekiel 4:3-6) 2,483.8 calendar years
=1,947.4 A.D. To adjust for the fact there was no year zero between 1 B.C. and A.D. 1, we adjust one year. +1
Therefore; the end of Israel's captivity would occur:
1948 - May 15
The Rebirth of Israel On the afternoon of May 14, 1948, the Jews proclaimed the independence of the reborn state of Israel. At midnight, as May 15, 1948, began, the British Mandate officially ended and Israel became an independent nation. "

To the DAY after how many years...............Still want to be an atheist....

p.s. I guess you believe dinosaurs lived 65 million years ago TOO?

Have a great day

Blade

*A Mathematical Error with the Bible.....http://xwalk.ca/problem.html

 

[Bladerunner]

I know some of you are going to ask why the 360 biblical days...Where does it say in the Bible that it is 360 days..WELL.........

How do we know that the Biblical days were 360 days instead of our normal calendar year of 365.25..

In Rev. 12: 6 KJV states that Jesus tells the Jewish people to flea Jerusulem and that they would be protected for 1260 days.

Then in Rev. 12:14 KJV Jesus tells them to stay there, the end would be in "a time, times, and half a time" or (1 year + 2 Years + 1/2 year)

If we multiply 365.25 * 3.5 years we get 1,278.375 days......A little off---NO????

If we multiply 360 * 3.5 years we get 1260 Days---BINGO...exactly.
Confirms the biblical days are 360 and the Bible or rather Jesus told us himself.

Have a great day!
Blade

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Blade

Hi Doc...... An investment scheme that will not cost you a dime, in fact it will not cost your anything.

The investment you describe depends on who describes it. If you are a TRUE believer (according to various church hierarchies including Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, etc.) you must also actively worship with a congregation and offer tithes and perform other acts. To follow the teachings offered by those churches, you have to give up 1/7th of your life (Sundays, of course) and 1/10th of your income (tithe). You cannot deny this, Blade... many churches describe different requirements and yet all claim to be "the ONLY true church." You know I speak correctly on the panoply of denominations, each with their own flavor of dogma, habits, rules, etc.

How are WE supposed to know which one is right? (That is intended as rhetorical.) The answer is that there is one more investment you DIDN'T mention. To believe in that which is unbelievable, we have to invest in a life-long lie. But if we are true to our own beliefs, it doesn't matter which church we hear - they are ALL wrong because they push the unbelievable ideas regarding the spirit world, starting with the idea that there is a separate world of spirits to begin with.

p.s. I guess you believe dinosaurs lived 65 million years ago TOO?

Well... yeah, I do, actually. It is easier to believe in dinosaurs than to believe in Jesus because for the dinosaurs we have found many fossils in locations consistent with that belief. For the Biblical discussions, the corresponding physical evidence is sorely limited to the point of being more accidental than anything else.

As to your numerical predictions of the Bible, the numbers seem a little odd, as though in one case you were counting years as weeks or vice versa. The language concepts of time passage haven't changed that much that we should confuse the two time units, but your computations section just doesn't seem right.

And by the way, you left out a few days because of the change that occurred from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar in the 1700s. It is the reason that Christmas occurs on 12/25 rather than 1/1. Like it or not, it was a well-known fact that the early church redefined many of the Pagan holidays by plopping church holidays on top of them, so that folks would still have the same holidays but just call it something different. Christmas would have come as an overlay to New Year's Day, the ultimate expression of symbolic rebirth. Easter was the overlay to a Pagan lunar fertility holiday. All Saints Day was an overlay to Halloween as a day to consider the spirits of the dead. We could go on, but that's enough for the point to be made.

The errors in the Julian calendar caused "date drift" such that your "May 15" date is probably either May 21 or May 9 depending on how you take the drift. The Julian calendar said our year was 365.25 days long, but it is really closer to 365.2422 days long. That difference of .0078 days per year accumulated until Pope Gregor's staff computed the discrepancy and corrected the error by adjusting all calendars. That's why George Washington's birthday (a Federal holiday in the USA) was wrongly celebrated for a while until the U.S. Congress made it a "floating" holiday for which observance is always on the first Monday after the "official" holiday.

Blade, you know I disagree with you but will not call you dirty names. I merely regret that you have had to resort to trotting out faulty math with shaky foundations to try to make a point that doesn't exist. Saying "We start with the Spring of year X and count this number of years ahead to get to a specific date in year Y" isn't a strong statement.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Confirms the biblical days are 360 and the Bible or rather Jesus told us himself.

This only confuses the matter. The calendar we used before the Julian calendar might well have been a 360-day calendar but if Jesus supposedly told us something, don't you think He might have known through divine inspiration (if not actual divinity) that the year was NOT really 360 days long? This argues AGAINST the divinity of Jesus.

The Julian calendar was the one that introduced LEAP YEAR concepts. Prior to that, we had a calendar of 360 days PLUS something called an intercalary interval that was the number of days long as required to realign the year and date. The year included the 12 months AND the Intercalary period. See also Saturnalia. What Julius Caesar did was to "lock down" the number of days in each month to their current counts and then add the leap year to February every four years.

 

[Rabbie]

Jesus died on the cross for our sins and it is a gift to you and me. Only your belief and Love is required.
That is really a hard price to overcome yet you Atheist seem to laugh at it..

It is a gift with no strings attached. All you have to do is ask him to forgive your sins. Simple as that,,,,,,, the Choice I have always talked about. -----

No churches, not baptism, no nothing except a covenant between you and Him.

Think about it.... you can still be macho man on this forum and yet secure your eternal life. What are you afraid of.

Have a blessed day.

Blade

Yes it is a very good offer if I thought it was genuine. I would really like to believe there was eternal life but I am afraid I can not. There are just too many objections for me to accept your premise.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Doc, Blade isn't even telling the truth on his Bible quote:

Ezekiel 4:3-6

3 "Then take an iron pan, place it as an iron wall between you and the city and turn your face toward it. It will be under siege, and you shall besiege it. This will be a sign to the people of Israel.

4 “Then lie on your left side and put the sin of the people of Israel upon yourself.[a] You are to bear their sin for the number of days you lie on your side. 5 I have assigned you the same number of days as the years of their sin. So for 390 days you will bear the sin of the people of Israel.

6 “After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the people of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year.

At no point is it stated that Israel will be born again in 2520 years. In fact, it pretty explicitly points out that the city has 390 years of sin (whatever the hell that means) and that the people of Judah have sinned for 40 years. Nothing in there states that you then multiply by seven.

All of his number manipulation is dishonest fiddling done to try to force the resolution he wants, much as all of the rest of the so-called numerology people keep trying to use on the Bible, and like them, he will use any gibberish he can in order to force the numbers to fit his preconceived expectation.

 

[Bladerunner]

Blade



The investment you describe depends on who describes it. If you are a TRUE believer (according to various church hierarchies including Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, etc.) you must also actively worship with a congregation and offer tithes and perform other acts. To follow the teachings offered by those churches, you have to give up 1/7th of your life (Sundays, of course) and 1/10th of your income (tithe). You cannot deny this, Blade... many churches describe different requirements and yet all claim to be "the ONLY true church." You know I speak correctly on the panoply of denominations, each with their own flavor of dogma, habits, rules, etc.

How are WE supposed to know which one is right? (That is intended as rhetorical.) The answer is that there is one more investment you DIDN'T mention. To believe in that which is unbelievable, we have to invest in a life-long lie. But if we are true to our own beliefs, it doesn't matter which church we hear - they are ALL wrong because they push the unbelievable ideas regarding the spirit world, starting with the idea that there is a separate world of spirits to begin with.

No, all you have to do is what I stated before. The "LOCAL" churches have nothing to do with the Bible. They are not "OF GOD".

As I stated , I know where you stand.......It is in my opinion very unfortunate but one of my statements remain, when millions leave this earth without a good reason or cause, think of what I have said.

Well... yeah, I do, actually. It is easier to believe in dinosaurs than to believe in Jesus because for the dinosaurs we have found many fossils in locations consistent with that belief. For the Biblical discussions, the corresponding physical evidence is sorely limited to the point of being more accidental than anything else.

Ah, yes an evolutionist....besides a Humanist......

As to your numerical predictions of the Bible, the numbers seem a little odd, as though in one case you were counting years as weeks or vice versa. The language concepts of time passage haven't changed that much that we should confuse the two time units, but your computations section just doesn't seem right.

And by the way, you left out a few days because of the change that occurred from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar in the 1700s. It is the reason that Christmas occurs on 12/25 rather than 1/1. Like it or not, it was a well-known fact that the early church redefined many of the Pagan holidays by plopping church holidays on top of them, so that folks would still have the same holidays but just call it something different. Christmas would have come as an overlay to New Year's Day, the ultimate expression of symbolic rebirth. Easter was the overlay to a Pagan lunar fertility holiday. All Saints Day was an overlay to Halloween as a day to consider the spirits of the dead. We could go on, but that's enough for the point to be made.

The errors in the Julian calendar caused "date drift" such that your "May 15" date is probably either May 21 or May 9 depending on how you take the drift. The Julian calendar said our year was 365.25 days long, but it is really closer to 365.2422 days long. That difference of .0078 days per year accumulated until Pope Gregor's staff computed the discrepancy and corrected the error by adjusting all calendars. That's why George Washington's birthday (a Federal holiday in the USA) was wrongly celebrated for a while until the U.S. Congress made it a "floating" holiday for which observance is always on the first Monday after the "official" holiday.

Blade, you know I disagree with you but will not call you dirty names. I merely regret that you have had to resort to trotting out faulty math with shaky foundations to try to make a point that doesn't exist. Saying "We start with the Spring of year X and count this number of years ahead to get to a specific date in year Y" isn't a strong statement.

The fact that that number is off by .0078 makes no difference. The way it was used in the context , it still does not give the correct number (1260 days).


I know Doc it is a tactic, but I keep finding that you would do anything to wiggle out of a argument that someone else is correct.

Have a nice day Doc..

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

This only confuses the matter. The calendar we used before the Julian calendar might well have been a 360-day calendar but if Jesus supposedly told us something, don't you think He might have known through divine inspiration (if not actual divinity) that the year was NOT really 360 days long? This argues AGAINST the divinity of Jesus.

The Julian calendar was the one that introduced LEAP YEAR concepts. Prior to that, we had a calendar of 360 days PLUS something called an intercalary interval that was the number of days long as required to realign the year and date. The year included the 12 months AND the Intercalary period. See also Saturnalia. What Julius Caesar did was to "lock down" the number of days in each month to their current counts and then add the leap year to February every four years.

The Jewish people go by two calendars, one 360 days (biblical) and 365 days (civil)--p.s. before we go on. Yes, they use the calendar we all use for their civil.

God set up the 360 day calendar and required them to use it. There is a reason. Will have to post it in a later text. But of course you would question a GOD, why would I doubt such a thing.

Again both Prophecies were filled to the Day from centuries before.

Before someone said there were no prophecies in the Bible but here they are along with several thousand more. Only a few remain to be filled.

Again have a good day....

Blade

 

[Rabbie]

Blade, there are lots of gods that you don't believe in so why are you so hard on those of us who don't believe in your's.

You also seem to be very intolerant of the vast majority of Christian believers, the way you slag off their churches seems to me to be lacking in Christian compassion and love for your neighbours.

 

[Bladerunner]

Blade, there are lots of gods that you don't believe in so why are you so hard on those of us who don't believe in your's.
You also seem to be very intolerant of the vast majority of Christian believers, the way you slag off their churches seems to me to be lacking in Christian compassion and love for your neighbours.

Hi Rabbie,,, good to hear from you....

Yes, I guess there are a lot of Gods, most of them man-made with the exception of Satan (lucifer). Islam encompasses 360 gods including the infamous Al-lah (the moon god). I am not trying to be hard on you all but rather the opposite. first, a lot of you are trying to use a fake Bible as a excuse for not believing or at least you are projecting that to me. I was just trying to show you that the Bible is a designed book from the beginning and therefore you have no reason not to believe.

The KJV version uses 'Church' where the Greek Septuagint uses the word 'Ecclesia' or an assembly of people. The "Local" church ( Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist) are all man-made and are not mentioned in the Bible, thus "Not of God". The people in them may or may not believe in Jesus and his resurrection that washed away all yours, theirs and my sins.

However, there are several local churches that have committed acts in the name of God that turn people off/away from gaining an eternal life. Most of them are turned off because of the hypocrisy and/or the rules the local churches required a member to follow in order to get to heaven. I don't blame them, I too turned away from the Baptist church early in life.

Keep one other thought in mind, there is a lot of Apostasy in the Church today and it will not abode well for those people within those local churches that go along with their leaders when they are judged.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people that get needed help from the local church, and its fellowship. A lot of lost souls, druggies, alcoholics, etc. have found Jesus, his love and now lead a productive life. Someone once said that the local churches save a lot of people souls "In spite" of themselves. I am just not a follower of the local church.

As I have stated all one has to do to have an eternal life is believe in Jesus, ("for whosoever believeth in me"), you sins have already been taken care of.

Having hopefully answered your statements:

Rabbie, there is so much negativity toward an all knowing God in this thread, I thought maybe by showing that the Bible was specifically designed by a being that is not of our time continuum, would help change or at least put a road bump in a few minds of some. That the prophecies presented in this book have been fulfilled in the timely manner they were intended to be and that everything concealed in the OT is revealed in the NT.

I also realize that in a lot of cases on this thread, life style of the individual gets in the way and there is going to be no reconciliation here. I personally feel this is very unfortunate.

If I respond to questions, statements with a little more zeal that you think I should, I am sorry, but to prove to you that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are real, I have to prove the only thing that can show you they are real, the Holy Bible. None of the other gods you spoke of including the Moon god have anything like this, especially with 3,000+ prophecies that have been fulfilled with the exception of the last few to come.

Rabbie, I am sorry if I have offended you, it is and was not my intent.

Have a great day.

Blade