Are you an atheist? (2 Viewers)

[Alisa]

You have a very strong belief system.

Blokes like Hawking and Davies and others say they run out of puff at the Big Bang as all physics ends. But you are dogmatic that they will find an answer.

Wrong. I have stated many times in this very thread that we may NEVER find an answer.

 

[KenHigg]

...I never learned proper capitalization.

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[Darth Vodka]

I said there were exceptions and the facts are the average actuary is not a big earner when measured against real big earners and ditto for accountant, solicitor and so on.

Your remark about Sesame Street gives a false impression of people who are very large earners but who either have no tertiary education or if so it is at a lower level. These people in fact tend to be highly educated where it counts for them earning money.

i have a rival theory: there is a direct correlation between income and education and indeed causation too, education causing higher income

intellect, whilst the propensity for it is genetic, is influenced by education and experience

intellect has a large correlation with atheism as intelligent, educated people are less likely to believe in stories without any evidence. eg. Santa, toothfairy, teapot orbiting the sun, some bloke in a beard making the universe in six days and putting two people made of clay down and they populate the earth by having three sons

 

[KenHigg]

You must first have evidence FOR before there can be any evidence AGAINST.

I'll take that as a no.

 

[Mike375]

Interesting theory. Britain and Australia have a parliamentary system and the government can be removed by a simple majority in the parliament. In the US the president can only be removed by impeachment which requires a 2/3 majority in the senate.

There are plenty of differences but overall I think the similarities are the key and remember the power of POTUS is greatly controlled by the House of Reps and Senate.

Politically Australia is to the left of the US but if our system changed to a replica of the US system nothing would change. Virtually the entire Australian population would still be living in or next to one of five big cities and that is probably the main thing causing the difference between America and Australia.

 

[Alisa]

I'll take that as a no.

I am an agnostic in the sense that I allow for the possibility that there is a god. I am an atheist in the sense that that I find the probablity so small that it is not worth worrying about.

 

[Darth Vodka]

at the Big Bang as all physics ends

does it?

wow, have you proved that?

you want the address to apply for the Nobel prize?

 

[Mike375]

i have a rival theory: there is a direct correlation between income and education and indeed causation too, education causing higher income

I have already said that the average income of people with tertiary education is higher. But higher education can stop the person from trying things. For example, I think if Clint Eastwood, Tom Cruise, Sylvester Stallone etc had good tertiary education they probably would not have entered acting.

intellect, whilst the propensity for it is genetic, is influenced by education and experience

I don't disagree with that at all. It is also important to remember as I said earlier extremely high income people without tertiary education are in fact highly educated in what count for them.

intellect has a large correlation with atheism as intelligent, educated people are less likely to believe in stories without any evidence. eg. Santa, toothfairy, teapot orbiting the sun, some bloke in a beard making the universe in six days and putting two people made of clay down and they populate the earth by having three sons

I have already said that religion, gods etc are common with primitive people because they have so few answers for what is around them or up in the sky.

 

[Mike375]

does it?

wow, have you proved that?

you want the address to apply for the Nobel prize?

I am repeating what Hawking and Davies say. Contact Alias as she over rides both of them

 

[dan-cat]

I am an agnostic in the sense that I allow for the possibility that there is a god. I am an atheist in the sense that that I find the probablity so small that it is not worth worrying about.

It seems that we are edging ever closer to Mike's original position.

"I did not say there were no genuine atheists but many who claim to be atheists are not so.....they might not believe in God or a god but at the back of their mind there is something. "

Link

 

[Mike375]

I am an agnostic in the sense that I allow for the possibility that there is a god. I am an atheist in the sense that that I find the probablity so small that it is not worth worrying about.

I said early in this thread there are very few 100% atheists. When it comes to God/Bible then I think there are lots of atheists and agnostics, especially the latter.

 

[Darth Vodka]

I have already said that religion, gods etc are common with primitive people because they have so few answers for what is around them or up in the sky.

bit harsh calling the bible belt primitive, but on reflection...yeah ok, harsh but fair

 

[Alisa]

It seems that we are edging ever closer to Mike's original position.

"I did not say there were no genuine atheists but many who claim to be atheists are not so.....they might not believe in God or a god but at the back of their mind there is something. "

Link

I think the main difference between my position and Mike's position is that I ask for evidence before believing in god, meanwhile he believes in god (or *a* god) while waiting for evidence. I think while they may appear to be similar positions on the surface, at the core they are completely opposite.

I said early in this thread there are very few 100% atheists. When it comes to God/Bible then I think there are lots of atheists and agnostics, especially the latter.

As I said before, it is hard to be an atheist when you are defined only in relation to what others believe. A "100%" atheist in my mind is not somebody who does not allow for the possibility that there is a god. An atheist is someone who declines to believe in a god for which there is no evidence. This is different than an agnostic, who either thinks that even though there is no evidence for god, that the probability of there being a god is equal to the probability of there not being a god, or who thinks that humans are not able to know whether there is a god or not. An atheist thinks that it IS possible to know whether there is a god or not, and thinks that it is reasonable to assume that there is not for the time being given the lack of evidence.

 

[KenHigg]

bit harsh calling the bible belt primitive, but on reflection...yeah ok, harsh but fair

Not a very nice thing to call the queen thingy either

 

[Darth Vodka]

Not a very nice thing to call the queen thingy either

i pay for her, i can slag her off

 

[Mike375]

I think the main difference between my position and Mike's position is that I ask for evidence before believing in god, meanwhile he believes in god (or *a* god) while waiting for evidence. I think while they may appear to be similar positions on the surface, at the core they are completely opposite.

Not so Alisa. You have a less conceptual view or perhaps a better word would be your view or views are more compartmentalised than mine. For example, you are prepared to go gung ho on evolution even though your infomation sources don't have a clue how life started. As I said earlier there would be no car race commentator who would give a disclaimer free commentary on the car race if he missed the start.

My view is quite simple. There are one or two answers to how everything started. The Hawking, Davies end of town appears no closer than they or their counterparts were many years ago. Big Bang has added to the supernatural side of the page. So in my opinion the likelihood of a supernatural being there is stronger than the alternative.

On all the evidence about the only way someone could 100% exclude the possibility of a supernatural is as a statement of position or principle.

 

[Mike375]

A "100%" atheist in my mind is not somebody who does not allow for the possibility that there is a god

That is agnostic. You only allow for other possibilities when your are not 100%

If you drop a rock do you allow for it to go up in the air rather than falling to the floor?

 

[KenHigg]

i pay for her, i can slag her off

I thought she earned her own way with the tourist / side show deal - ?

 

[georgedwilkinson]

bit harsh calling the bible belt primitive, but on reflection...yeah ok, harsh but fair

Yes, we hillbillies in the Bible Belt are not well educated, for sure. Also, we have poor dental hygeine (many of us with gaps in our teeth), no indoor plumbing, hunt and kill our own food, and are generally stupid (I did know a smart person here once, but I think he came from somewhere else--he gave me a computer, generator, and satellite hookup and taught me how to think/type, but I'm pretty sure I'm getting it wrong).

Thank you for taking time to mention us, though.

 

[KenHigg]

That is agnostic. You only allow for other possibilities when your are not 100%

If you drop a rock do you allow for it to go up in the air rather than falling to the floor?

I would be going in the 'up' direction from my perspective -