Are you an atheist?

[aziz rasul]

But that reinforces my point about everyone's perception being different.

There's nothing wrong with having a different view but it seemed to me you were mocking the scripture for mocking sake. People in the past have done the same so you are not unique in that sense and they have also denied the TRUTH when it comes to them.

030.010 Then evil was the consequence to those who dealt in evil, because they
denied the revelations of Allah and made a mock of them.

030.011 Allah produceth creation, then He reproduceth it, then unto Him ye will be
returned.

031.006 And of mankind is he who payeth for mere pastime of discourse, that he may
mislead from Allah's way without knowledge, and maketh it the butt of mockery. For
such there is a shameful doom.

031.007 And when Our revelations are recited unto him he turneth away in pride as if
he heard them not, as if there were a deafness in his ears. So give him tidings of a
painful doom.

031.008 Lo! those who believe and do good works, for them are the gardens of
delight,

031.009 Wherein they will abide. It is a promise of Allah in truth. He is the Mighty,
the Wise.

046.026 And verily We had empowered them with that wherewith We have not
empowered you, and had assigned them ears and eyes and hearts; but their ears and
eyes and hearts availed them naught since they denied the revelations of Allah; and
what they used to mock befell them.

So, what was your answer to the question? Are you claiming "god would never do that"? If so, how can a mortal man such as yourself possibly understand the will and mind of an all powerful, ageless, timeless being that created everything?

God created us with free will to choose whichever path we wish in order to test us. It is illogical for him to say this in the Qur'an, which is a Book for all mankind to follow, if they wish, till the end of time. So we understand the will of God through His revelations.

076.002 Lo! We create man from a drop of thickened fluid to test him; so We make
him hearing, knowing.

076.003 Lo! We have shown him the way, whether he be grateful or disbelieving.

The following verses are in reference to Adam and his wife (peace be upon them) [and their future progenies] when they were told to leave the Paradise (Garden of Aden) and come down to Earth.

002.038 We said: Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

002.039 But they who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein.

 

[Galaxiom]

I placed many Qur’anic verses in this thread to show that the Qur’an could not be the work of man as the verses talk about science which was unknown at the time of revelation.

Your claim that "the Heavens and Earth were one before We clove them asunder" represents a factual scientific account of reality is quite ridiculous. In fact the Earth and the heavens were never as one but formed by a process of gravitational accretion.

Moreover you completely ignore the fact that the seven earths one under another and the seven heavens above are not found in nature. Also we don't find the heavens are "supported on invisible pillars".

Indeed Mohammed's description is that the Earth is rolled out flat and pegged down by mountains. You simply ignore what you cannot interpret as a match and even your "matches" are tenuous.

You see some occasional tenuous parallels as proof because you have begun with the assumption that the Qur'an is TRUTH. In fact you simply set the bar for proof so low that it is can be easily stepped over by coincidence.

Science sets very high standards for proof and specifically guards against coincidence by statistical analysis. Such an analysis of the Qur'an would unambiguously reject your assertions.

I can give you many examples of where religion and logic do go hand in hand. As a Muslim I obey God after having established that God exists.

Although you feel subjectively satisfied in establishing that God exists your logic is deeply flawed and does not stand up to objective analysis.

In Islam, there is no free mixing of men and women, which is why the issue of a couple doesn’t come into the picture.

This system of apartheid is directly responsible for the pathological nature of the relationship between men and women in Islamic societies in the same way if was for racial apartheid.

But that’s what I said in my last post. Whatever the financial issues a married couple have is their own business. Don’t understand what your objection is as you seem to be agreeing with me?

What you said was that they could not marry if the man could not support the woman.

There is no church in Islam. We have Masjids. So you’re mixing your establishments a bit.

It looks like a church and acts like a church. The difference is semantic.

 

[Galaxiom]

How many western woman would want to marry a man who is unable to support her?

You demonstrate that you really are an anachronism. Modern western women in do not view themselves as dependent on a man.

 

[Galaxiom]

Vast parts of Qur'an are devoted to claiming that God is great and Mohammed has been told the TRUTH while others attest to the terrible suffering that will become those who exercise their free will and fail to worship.

Beyond these assertions there is absolutely NOTHING to back the claims. Something cannot establish its own veracity by simply claiming it is so in the absence of independently verifiable evidence.

 

[Adam Caramon]

There's nothing wrong with having a different view but it seemed to me you were mocking the scripture for mocking sake. People in the past have done the same so you are not unique in that sense and they have also denied the TRUTH when it comes to them.

No, I am not mocking. Simply trying to get you to agree or at last understand that since the language of the Qur'an (or any religious text) is so ambiguous, there will be different interpretations. What is the truth to you, is not the truth to everyone else.

God created us with free will to choose whichever path we wish in order to test us. It is illogical for him to say this in the Qur'an, which is a Book for all mankind to follow, if they wish, till the end of time. So we understand the will of God through His revelations.

You interpret the text based on your own perceptions. Do you really think a being as almighty and powerful can be explained in 1 book? Do you claim to know and understand everything there is to know simply by having read 1 book?

That seems incredibly short-sighted to the point of arrogance.

 

[Galaxiom]

You interpret the text based on your own perceptions. Do you really think a being as almighty and powerful can be explained in 1 book? Do you claim to know and understand everything there is to know simply by having read 1 book?

That seems incredibly short-sighted to the point of arrogance.

A blinked outlook combined with unwavering arrogance are the foundations of the Abrahamic faiths.

You need to remember that these religions base their philosophy on the revelations of a man who was about to ritually murder his son. Anyone who thinks that is a good place to start obviously hasn't really thought much about it.

 

[Mike375]

A blinked outlook combined with unwavering arrogance are the foundations of the Abrahamic faiths.

You need to remember that these religions base their philosophy on the revelations of a man who was about to ritually murder his son. Anyone who thinks that is a good place to start obviously hasn't really thought much about it.

Actually, I have always thought that God testing Abraham indicates a limited god. The ultimate horsepower god does not need to test.

I am inclined to think the Bible is basically correct but our "god" is like a branch manager.

 

[Rabbie]

Actually, I have always thought that God testing Abraham indicates a limited god. The ultimate horsepower god does not need to test.

I am inclined to think the Bible is basically correct but our "god" is like a branch manager.

Welcome back Mike

If the bible is correct then it is quite clear that our god is not a "branch manager" but is the "supremo". The bible is quite clear on this point.

 

[Galaxiom]

If the bible is correct then it is quite clear that our god is not a "branch manager" but is the "supremo". The bible is quite clear on this point.

And judging by the content and apparent lack of action we actually have the cleaner sitting in the CEO's chair pretending to be wise and powerful.

 

[Lightwave]

Incredible peace about duck billed platypus and evolution. I recommend listening to it all quite spectacular.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6jHssbcjoA

A true link between reptiles and mammals

 

[dkgurung]

I checked "My God ...." because I am a believer but my faith does not have a specific God. I believe there is only ONE GOD who has numerous names.

 

[Adam Caramon]

An interesting article: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/27/bill-nye-slams-creationism/comment-page-124/#comments

 

[Rabbie]

I think many religious fundamentalists would disagree with you there. They are convinced that God created the world in the last 10,000 years and any other beliefs are in their view blasphemous. God setting up evolution is IMO a way of having your cake and eating it. It allows you to still believe in God and not have to reject the scientific evidence.

In my view there is no need to bring the hypothesis of God into the discussion of evolving life.

If there is a god where did he/she/it come from?

 

[Galaxiom]

There is no need to "create" evolution. It is an inevitable consequence of imperfect copying of the genome and natural selection.

 

[aziz rasul]

No, I am not mocking.

I beg to differ.

 

[Galaxiom]

The religious need to become accustomed to being mocked for their ludicrous beliefs. The days where faith garnered automatic respect are over.

Faith is just another word for delusion.

 

[aziz rasul]

Islam has been mocked even as far back at the time of the earliest including Nuh (peace be upon him). So we’re used to it. As far as beliefs being ‘ludicrous’ as you put it, you are entitled to your opinion. I just don’t happen to share as far as Islam is concerned.

I don’t want to be respected because I am religious. After all I don’t go about respecting people I see day to day just because they are not religious.

A lack of faith (I’m of course referring to Islam) is delusional.

People of non faith said the same things as you are saying. This clearly shows that non Muslims think in the same way and have done so for thousands of years.

And when the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, were saying: Allaah and His messenger promised us naught but delusion. 33:12

 

[Galaxiom]

A lack of faith (I’m of course referring to Islam) is delusional.

In what way?

By definition, the need for faith indicates that a concept cannot be supported by evidence. To persist with a claim that contradicts the evidence is a delusion.

Science is built on repeatable verifiable evidence and coherent theory.

Religion is nothing but the ravings of lunatics. There is little doubt, based on modern medical knowledge and contemporary reports of his behaviour, that Mohammed was experiencing epileptic seizures of the temporal lobes of the brain when he imagined his own bigoted, misogynist prejudices were a message from a supernatural entity.

Abraham was about to murder his son when God spoke to him. He was evidently quite mentally ill.

Yet the philosophy of these deranged people is supposed form the foundations of a superior theory of morality?

Take a step outside the box that defines your faith and you might just glimpse its reality as an anachronism in a world where intelligence has taken us to places where doctrine cannot imagine.

 

[DNewman]

What puzzles me is that if Dawkins really believes what he writes, why he bothers in the first place! Perhaps his 'life is utterly meaningless' line is only intended for people like me who believe in God (jealousy perhaps?).

When promoting one of his books in New York, he was asked by a student why he had bothered to write it. At least he was honest enough not to have an answer! Presumably some inexplicable survival instinct (or sexual drive?) impels him, for what that might be worth in his meaningless world.

I suspect he is just keeping sane by whistling in the dark!

 

[Galaxiom]

I have not read Dawkins work. However, most active atheists are making a stand because they are tired of the damage religion is doing in the world.

I would be very surprised if he did not have an answer about why he wrote the book. Do you have a verifiable reference to back your claim?

It is more likely to be a myth promoted through hearsay by the religious because it suits their prejudices. Not unusual since the religious have no concern for facts, preferring faith as the basis for their beliefs.