Are you an atheist? (2 Viewers)

[Galaxiom]

You keep returning to to the Quran for absolutely everything yet you claim you think outside of the box.

You insist it is THE SOURCE OF ALL TRUTH. You are incapable of critical analysis. You embody the essence of the ignorance of religion.

You cite the Quran as the answer for everything yet these verses are completely irrelevant in the context of the discussion.

Muhammed had dozens of wives yet the Quran says a man can have four. As an old man he married a child. His advice denies to women the same rights afforded to men. This is blatant sexism. Yet you say this is advice from a supreme being.

I make no apology for a hatred of fascism. Like all Abrahamic religions, Islam is fascism. The future of the planet depends on it demise.

 

[aziz rasul]

Having decided by thinking outside the box initially that the Qur'an was from God, then it'sonly natural to quote the Qur'an, what else would you expect?

You insist it is THE SOURCE OF ALL TRUTH. You are incapable of critical analysis. You embody the essence of the ignorance of religion.

That's just ranting and raving again. Any ideas that oppose your views tend to result in this. The verses I quote answer you directly based on your behaviour.

14 centuries ago and before, there was no limit set by how many wived a man could marry. The verse towards the end of the Medina period was revelaed to set a limit. As Muhammad (peace be upon him) was already married to his 12 wives at the time hence he broke no rules as you seem, in your bias against Islam, to suggest. You talk about critical analysis, yey you don't even take the time to research what you yourself are saying. Your hate for Islam consumes you.

Muhammad (peace be upon you) married Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) when she was 16 and she entered her marital home when she was 19. The hadith that mentions she was 6 is an error. If you analyse the events that took place when Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was born and when she was married, 16 is the age that it comes to. As far as wome's rights are concerned, I suspect like the other points you have probably not researched it at all. The fact that you say

I make no apology for a hatred of fascism. Like all Abrahamic religions, Islam is fascism. The future of the planet depends on it demise.

shows this clearly.

On the contrary, the future of the planet depends on Islam, hence the resurgence towards Islam in many countries.

 

[Galaxiom]

Having decided by thinking outside the box initially that the Qur'an was from God, then it'sonly natural to quote the Qur'an, what else would you expect?[/qiote]

Experience has shown what to expect from you. However quoting from the Quran is worthless in debate. If you understood debate you would also realise why it is so inane to attempt to support an argument that way.

Perhaps you could research "circular arguments".

That's just ranting and raving again. Any ideas that oppose your views tend to result in this.

This trite answer to all criticism is boring a repetitive. You attempt to dismiss all criticism of Islam as misguided "ranting". It is a convenient way to ignore the facts but it simply doesn't cut it.

The verses I quote answer you directly based on your behaviour.

Mohammed suggested that there would be people who would not accept the rubbish he dictated. Hardly surprising. Unfortunately in your advanced state of delusion you see this a confirmation of its TRUTH.

Muhammad (peace be upon you) married Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) when she was 16 and she entered her marital home when she was 19. The hadith that mentions she was 6 is an error. If you analyse the events that took place when Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was born and when she was married, 16 is the age that it comes to.

Yawn. You have repeated an obscure interpretation invented in modern times to deny that Mohammed was a pedophile. Islam's appalling treatment of all females encourages pedophilia and your ridiculous reinterpretations do not gain traction.

As far as wome's rights are concerned, I suspect like the other points you have probably not researched it at all. The fact that you say shows this clearly.

Under Islam women are not afforded the same rights as men. Are you denying this fact like you deny the other inconvenient facts I have presented? This fact unquestionably indicates Islam is deeply sexist. As such the supposed wisdom Islam is obviously FALSE. End of story. There can be no other interpretation.

On the contrary, the future of the planet depends on Islam, hence the resurgence towards Islam in many countries.

Islam is doing well in countries beset with ignorance, especially those where educational opportunities are systematically repressed in favour of rote learning of the Quran.

However, worldwide the demise of the Abrahamic religions is steadily progressing. It will take several generations but it will happen. Religion is an anachronism persisted among the ignorant. Cure ignorance and religion runs out of what it lives on. Hence the strong commitment Islam make to persisting ignorance.

 

[aziz rasul]

Experience has shown what to expect from you. However quoting from the Quran is worthless in debate. If you understood debate you would also realise why it is so inane to attempt to support an argument that way.

On the contrary, the Qur'an reveals the TRUTH. Here's some TRUTH for you.

"O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him - the Messenger Muhammad, while you are hearing. And be not like those who say: We have heard but they hear not. Verily! The worst of moving living creatures in the Sight of Allah are the deaf and the dumb, those who understand not - the disbelievers. Had Allah known of any good in them, He would indeed have made them listen, even if He had made them listen, they would but have turned away, averse to the truth.

O you who believe! Answer Allah by obeying Him and His Messenger, when he calls you to that which will give you life, and know that Allah comes in between a person and his heart - that is, he prevents an evil person to decide anything. And verily to Him you shall all be gathered." 8:20-24

"And those who disbelieve say: Listen not to this Quran, and make noise in the midst of its recitation that you may overcome." 41:26

"Verily! The worst of moving living creatures in the Sight of Allah are the deaf and the dumb, those who understand not - the disbelievers." 8:22

"They are only like cattle - nay, they are even further astray from the Path - even worse than cattle." 25:44

"Yes! Verily, there came to you My Ayat - the proofs, the evidences, the verses, the signs etc., and you denied them, and were proud and were among the disbelievers." 39:59

"Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the Blazing Fire." 67:10

"And whosoever does not respond to Allah's Caller, he can not escape on earth, and there will be no Awliya - protectors, for him besides Allah from His punishment. Those are in manifest error." 46:32

"But if they answer you not - that is they do not believe in your doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, nor follow you, then know that they only follow their own lusts. And who is more astray than one who follows his own lusts, without guidance from Allah? Verily! Allah guides not the people who are wrong-doers and disobedient to Allah - the Dhalimun." 28:50

"And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks - such as music and singing etc., to mislead men from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment in the Hell-Fire. And when Our Verses are recited to such a one, he turns away in pride, as if he heard them not, as if there were deafness in his ear. So announce to him a painful torment." 31:6-7

This trite answer to all criticism is boring a repetitive. You attempt to dismiss all criticism of Islam as misguided "ranting". It is a convenient way to ignore the facts but it simply doesn't cut it.

But ranting and raving is all you seem to do. You show no intelligence in your answers, almost child like. You continue to deny ther TRUTH as the following shows.

Yawn. You have repeated an obscure interpretation invented in modern times to deny that Mohammed was a pedophile. Islam's appalling treatment of all females encourages pedophilia and your ridiculous reinterpretations do not gain traction.

Why is obscure. You say I don't think outside the box but you in return show little debating argument, in fact you don't even think or indeed challenge. Anyone can rant and rave even a child. That is all you are doing. You continually refuse to direct debate. No wonder, the best way to answer you is through God's book, the Qur'an.

Under Islam women are not afforded the same rights as men. Are you denying this fact like you deny the other inconvenient facts I have presented? This fact unquestionably indicates Islam is deeply sexist. As such the supposed wisdom Islam is obviously FALSE. End of story. There can be no other interpretation.

Again more ranting. You say women were not granted the same rights as men, but you quote nothing to substantiate this or present any evidence. Me thinks you are actually afraid to debate anything in any detail because I suspect you know the TRUTH will be told to you that you can't answer intelligently so more ranting and raving will occur to mask your lack of knowledge in the subject.

Islam is doing well in countries beset with ignorance, especially those where educational opportunities are systematically repressed in favour of rote learning of the Quran.

Islam has been on the rise in the west. Are these the countries you mean?

However, worldwide the demise of the Abrahamic religions is steadily progressing.

Well Islam is progressing. You can't even accept that fact. The number of indigenuous populus reverting to Islam in the west has risen sharply over the past 4 decades. I have personally experienced this.

"But if they answer you not - that is they do not believe in your doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, nor follow you, then know that they only follow their own lusts. And who is more astray than one who follows his own lusts, without guidance from Allah? Verily! Allah guides not the people who are wrong-doers and disobedient to Allah - the Dhalimun." 28:50

 

[Brianwarnock]

More meaningless quotes instead of debate.

The reason Islam is increasing in the west over the last 4 decades is simple, immigration as people leave the intolerant Islamic nations to the better life in the west.

Is it true that women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia? How about the lack of education In Afganistan, can women have 4 husbands? How about the right not to dress like a sack of potatoes.

Brian

 

[aziz rasul]

Exactly which quotes were meaningless. Please be more specific. Random statements like this don't mean much and don't part of any debate as you are accusing me of.

The reason Islam is increasing in the west over the last 4 decades is simple, immigration as people leave the intolerant Islamic nations to the better life in the west.

But what about the indigenous who are reverting to Islam, you seem to have missed them out. Some Muslim nations have despots that have been encouraged to stay by the west. Again you do not paint a complete picture. I condemn both western and eastern leaders who are despots and kill innocents. Blood runs in both camps. Also many westerners have migrated to the east for the same economic benefits, please don’t forget that.

Is it true that women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia? How about the lack of education In Afganistan, can women have 4 husbands? How about the right not to dress like a sack of potatoes.

It is true that women are not allowed to drive in KSA. What’s your point? This has nothing to do with Islam. In the UK, women have been denied equal pay for decades. This has nothing to do with Christianity but it’s still happens. There are many issues in the west that are troubling such as domestic violence towards women, teenage pregnancies, women’s bodies being exploited by the porn industry, shall I go on?

There is a lack of education in Afghanistan for everyone, Afghanistan is a poor country. No women can’t have 4 husbands as the reason why men can have up to 4 wives was that generally there are more women to men and to prevent promiscuity men are allowed up to 4 women under 2 conditions i.e. they are still responsible for their families financially and they have to treat their wives equally.

Your comment regarding ‘a sack of potatoes’ is an inappropriate one. Men and women are required to dress with modesty. You may not approve of this but you are not a Muslim.

 

[Galaxiom]

On the contrary, the Qur'an reveals the TRUTH. Here's some TRUTH for you.

{Rant quoting from the Quran removed for brevity}

But ranting and raving is all you seem to do. You show no intelligence in your answers, almost child like. You continue to deny ther TRUTH as the following shows.

It is rather amusing that you accuse me of ranting without intelligence when that is all you do. Your rants are not even original but taken from the ancient, incredibly repetitive rantings of a man suffering from mental illness.

You say women were not granted the same rights as men, but you quote nothing to substantiate this or present any evidence. Me thinks you are actually afraid to debate anything in any detail because I suspect you know the TRUTH will be told to you that you can't answer intelligently so more ranting and raving will occur to mask your lack of knowledge in the subject.

You show no debating skills whatsoever. You have not addressed a single point. Indeed your deepest analysis was when you tried to justify the sexist practice of allowing men four wives but deny women the same rights.

Now you are asking me for evidence that Islam is sexist?

And again you continue to insist the practice is justified because there are more women than men even though I have already thoroughly debunked that claim by proving statistics.

And you ultimate reply insisted you were entitled to your opinion despite it being easily shown as being completely FALSE.

We have been through this same debate before. You claim that the man who has the means to support four wives had the right to do so. Yet a woman who has the means to support multiple husbands is not entitled to do so. The obvious assumption is that you presume a woman aught to be dependent on her husband. And why. Because it keeps them down-trodden.

I don't expect you to take any notice because you have not done so before, You will just post another irrelevant rant from the Quaran.

You really don't get it. The debate is about the validity of the Quran. All you do is quote what you claim to be "god's words" straight out of the book. You have not independently established that the book was dictated from anything except Mohammed's twisted mind.

This one is a classic:

"O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him - the Messenger Muhammad, while you are hearing. And be not like those who say: We have heard but they hear not. Verily! The worst of moving living creatures in the Sight of Allah are the deaf and the dumb, those who understand not - the disbelievers. Had Allah known of any good in them, He would indeed have made them listen, even if He had made them listen, they would but have turned away, averse to the truth.

Mohammed tells us that god insists we believe his messenger and you think this provides evidence of the veracity of Mohammed's hallucinations.

Anyone could say that god told them that everyone was to listen to their rants. Your posts are boring and utterly unintelligent.

Keep doing it though. The more we can reveal the true nature of the insidious Abrahamic religions and their inane followers the better will be our world.

 

[Galaxiom]

It is true that women are not allowed to drive in KSA. What’s your point? This has nothing to do with Islam. In the UK, women have been denied equal pay for decades. This has nothing to do with Christianity but it’s still happens.

On the contrary. The long held prejudices against women in both Islamic and Christian societies are a direct result of the misogyny inherent in the tenets of the Abrahamic faiths.

It is no coincidence that women's rights have appeared as the power and influence of religion faded. Adherents to both Christianity and Islam continue to battle against the rights of women arguing that"God's Word" should be obeyed and women forced to resume their inferior position in society.

 

[Rabbie]

We should be grateful to Aziz for constantly reminding us of the meaningless way some religious people use quotes as a substitute for thinking.

 

[aziz rasul]

We should be grateful to Rabbie for a lack of intelligent thinking. It did not occur to him that a person can think meaningfully about what he reads and then quote it.

It is rather amusing that you accuse me of ranting without intelligence when that is all you do. Your rants are not even original but taken from the ancient, incredibly repetitive rantings of a man suffering from mental illness.

Ranting is something of a specialty of yours and your latest post confirms this. You also seem to indulge in repetitive views in issues that are continuously incorrect. You bring no intelligent debate to the discussion. You show no debating skills whatsoever. You have not addressed a single point. You began the point regarding Muhammad (peace be upon him) having dozens of wives contrary to the Qur’an, yet when the situation was clarified, your response was not to tackle the explanation but to turn the whole thing with regard to why women couldn’t have 4 husbands.

And again you continue to insist the practice is justified because there are more women than men even though I have already thoroughly debunked that claim by proving statistics.

Generally my stats are correct and yours are not despite it being easily shown as being completely FALSE.

We have been through this same debate before. You claim that the man who has the means to support four wives had the right to do so. Yet a woman who has the means to support multiple husbands is not entitled to do so. The obvious assumption is that you presume a woman aught to be dependent on her husband. And why. Because it keeps them down-trodden.

Rubbish.

I don't expect you to take any notice because you have not done so before, You will just post another irrelevant rant from the Quaran.

The Qur’an is completely relevant. Here are some verses to show this.

002.119 Lo! We have sent thee (O Muhammad) with the truth, a bringer of glad tidings and a warner. And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire.

007.158 Say (O Muhammad): O mankind! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah to you all - (the messenger of) Him unto Whom belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. There is no God save Him. He quickeneth and He giveth death. So believe in Allah and His messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, who believeth in Allah and in His Words, and follow him that haply ye may be led aright.

007.193 And if ye call them to the Guidance, they follow you not. Whether ye call them or are silent is all one for you.

009.023 O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers.

Rabbie, I read and understood the verses before I wrote them down, just so that you know.

You really don't get it. The debate is about the validity of the Quran. All you do is quote what you claim to be "god's words" straight out of the book ...

I do get it, you perhaps don’t. I have established that the Qur’an is the TRUTH and comes from God. I can repeat this in as many times you want me to if you like. No problem. The TRUTH can’t be vanquished much as you try to.

This one is a classic

Yes it is a good verse, describes you exactly. That’s why I quoted it.

Mohammed (peace be upon him) doesn’t tell us anything as far as the Qur’an is concerned, it’s God who is telling us. I’m happy to remind you as often as you want even if it irritates you as it clearly does.

Anyone could say that god told them that everyone was to listen to their rants. Your posts are boring and utterly unintelligent.

No one is forcing you to listen. You seem to have a gold medal, Nobel Prize and Hollywood Oscar in ranting. Well done. Why do you post me if you find my posts boring. I find your ranting and raving amusing as the Qur’an predicts that is how some non-Muslims will behave and you are a perfect candidate. Your behaviour proves among other things that thru the Qur’an God is telling us the classic behaviour of non-Muslims. Your behaviour brings part of the Qur’an to life. Non-Muslims behaved in the same way in the past. Human nature doesn’t change I guess.

Keep doing it though.

OK, I was intending to and will do so insha-allaah until my last breath.

The more we can reveal the true nature of the insidious Abrahamic religions and their inane followers the better will be our world.

Well actually more and more non-Muslims in the west are turning to Islam among the indigenous population. I have personally experienced this.

009.073 O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.

009.080 Ask forgiveness for them (O Muhammad), or ask not forgiveness for them; though thou ask forgiveness for them seventy times Allah will not forgive them. That is because they disbelieved in Allah and His messenger, and Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

010.007 Lo! those who expect not the meeting with Us but desire the life of the world and feel secure therein, and those who are neglectful of Our revelations,

010.008 Their home will be the Fire because of what they used to earn.

On the contrary. The long held prejudices against women in both Islamic and Christian societies are a direct result of the misogyny inherent in the tenets of the Abrahamic faiths.

Again more rubbish. Women not being allowed to drive has nothing to do with Islam. Also your views that Muslim women are inherently discriminated is fundamentally wrong. True, like men, they are not allowed to go about half naked as some women do in the west and no doubt in Australia. It is rich you talking about the rubbish you talk when Australia is inherently a racist country especially against Muslims of both genders.

It is no coincidence that women's rights have appeared as the power and influence of religion faded. Adherents to both Christianity and Islam continue to battle against the rights of women arguing that"God's Word" should be obeyed and women forced to resume their inferior position in society.

Then why are women 4 times likely to come to Islam in the west compared to men? Huh?

For Muslim men and women, - for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allaah's praise, - for them has Allaah prepared forgiveness and great reward.
Qur’an - Surah al-Ahzaab (The Clans) 33:35

 

[Galaxiom]

Generally my stats are correct and yours are not despite it being easily shown as being completely FALSE.

I provided statistics that showed that numbers of men and women are virtually equal. You didn't provide ANY population statistics at all. You made an unsubstantiated statement that there are more women than men and when confronted with the FACTS you claimed that you were entitled to your opinion.

Now do provide a link to to back your claim.

You won't because none exists.

Instead you will simply accuse me of ranting again.

 

[Galaxiom]

I do get it, you perhaps don’t. I have established that the Qur’an is the TRUTH and comes from God. I can repeat this in as many times you want me to if you like. No problem. The TRUTH can’t be vanquished much as you try to.

You have established this for yourself because you set the standard of proof so low. No matter how convinced you are, circular logic consisting of quoting the Quran does not contribute to an intelligent discussion about the veracity of your claims.

Indeed you have absolutely nothing outside the Quran to support your argument while others have provided a considerable amount of evidence that the Quran is a load of primitive misogynist rubbish written by a mentally ill man.

 

[Galaxiom]

Again more rubbish. Women not being allowed to drive has nothing to do with Islam.

Your supposed answer to my argument consist entirely of denial and simply repeating you original unsubstantiated claim.

What I said was:

The long held prejudices against women in both Islamic and Christian societies are a direct result of the misogyny inherent in the tenets of the Abrahamic faiths.

Show me how you addressed that point.

It is rich you talking about the rubbish you talk when Australia is inherently a racist country especially against Muslims of both genders.

Firstly a country cannot be racist. People can be racists.

Secondly, a dislike of a religious ideology is not racism.

It is typical of the religious to claim that all and any criticism of their faith is racism. They do this because they have no intelligent counter to that criticism.

 

[Adam Caramon]

I do get it, you perhaps don’t. I have established that the Qur’an is the TRUTH and comes from God. I can repeat this in as many times you want me to if you like. No problem. The TRUTH can’t be vanquished much as you try to.

You have not established this. You've stated it. I don't recall a single person on here having agreed with you. The Qur'an holds value to you because you've surrendered your will to it. That is all.

 

[KenHigg]

Aziz,

You seem like a reasonable person in your faith and not an extremist like it appears some others here are trying to make you out to be. Your peaceful pursuit of a faith that encourages universally accepted good personal values is to be commended. Too many are wandering aimless. Some fall pawns to empty promises and go from one failed political agenda to the next, getting on whatever feel good bandwagon comes along.

In a play for attention, I think some kids consume hours of CNN/Fox and google drivel and propose they know more about what ails American better than their seniors, some by many years, who have experienced the years of wars, fiscal irresponsibility, property and payroll taxes, etc., etc., not just read someone else’s potentially spun or flawed interpretations. Even though my faith is in a different direction I respect your right to believe what you like. Some people, who paradoxically argue we should be more tolerant, will leave no rock unturned in their efforts to force their view and make the other person look like a fool. They claim to use logic then in next sentence have no problems with gays when man and wife were clearly made to be complimentary.

Instead of gloating on blues states that agreed with them, a good leader might propose to understand the reason why the reds states didn’t, so we can all dig ourselves out of this mess we’re in together…

Keep up the peaceful fight

 

[Brianwarnock]

They claim to use logic then in next sentence have no problems with gays when man and wife were clearly made to be complimentary.

The above statement by Ken shows the narrow thought of the religious, why should the acceptance of the complementary nature of man and woman mean that we should have a problem with homosexuals. A person does not choose their sexuality, it is just how nature (God?) made them. I accept that some are asking too much, over here they are demanding marriage not being satisfied with a civil partnership, but Ken's statement is all embracing.

Brian

 

[KenHigg]

So you think in some case (most), nature hardwired one man to have physical desires for women and in some other men (fewer by far), he hardwired them to have physical desires for other men?

 

[Galaxiom]

So you think in some case (most), nature hardwired one man to have physical desires for women and in some other men (fewer by far), he hardwired them to have physical desires for other men?

That is the case as backed by scientific evidence.

By the same token, most people in the world have dark hair but some have blond hair. Is that hardwired or simply a personal choice?

You have aptly demonstrated where the faithful go wrong by assuming that the characteristics of a person are the result of a decision by a supernatural being rather than, a science shows, a product of evolution.

 

[Galaxiom]

Aziz,

You seem like a reasonable person in your faith and not an extremist like it appears some others here are trying to make you out to be. Your peaceful pursuit of a faith that encourages universally accepted good personal values is to be commended.

Universally accepted good personal values? What rubbish.

Just for starters, the status of women in the tenets of the Abrahamic religions is far from universally accepted and far from good.

Like the vast majority of muslims, Aziz wants Sharia Law imposed on the entire planet. He has stated in this very thread that his religion allows him to live in places that don't impose this blatantly fascist system of rule provided he works towards changing it.

Some people, who paradoxically argue we should be more tolerant, will leave no rock unturned in their efforts to force their view and make the other person look like a fool. They claim to use logic then in next sentence have no problems with gays when man and wife were clearly made to be complimentary.

In the same post you promote religious tolerance then display the depth of your bigotry and intolerance towards people with different sexual desires from your own.

Instead of gloating on blues states that agreed with them, a good leader might propose to understand the reason why the reds states didn’t, so we can all dig ourselves out of this mess we’re in together…

Oh, and you think the Republicans will make the slightest attempt to understand why people chose not to vote in a Republican President? No they will continue to use whatever means available to promote the interests of the rich regardless of what it does to the country and the plant.

It is the Republicans who dug this hole. Their "small government" ideology is about letting their cronies to get away anything in the name of personal profit while pretending that is the best thing for everyone.

As Romney said, the poor and disenfranchised are not his problem.

Most remarkably the Republicans fought the presidential contest on the notion that they were the superior financial manages. The truth is that since 1945, the stock market has performed fifty percent better under Democratic leaders than Republicans.

 

[Galaxiom]

I accept that some are asking too much, over here they are demanding marriage not being satisfied with a civil partnership, but Ken's statement is all embracing.

Brain, you are part of the problem!

By what logic do you claim that wanting marriage equality is "too much"?