Are you an atheist?

[Bladerunner]

Why am I an atheist? A fair question which I will attempt to answer.

I would like to believe in the Christian God. It would give me great comfort if I could believe it were true. It would make a fantastic comfort blanket. I genuinely envy those that have a faith. Unfortunately I do not see any evidence to support that hypothesis. The Bible has many internal contradictions - the main one being the vast difference between the OT God and the NT God but there are many others.

I do agree with many of the teachings of Christianity in how we should live and deal with one another. The stumbling block for me is the unexplained existence of a supernatural figure that is somehow responsible for everything

Have a nice day

Rabbie: Yes, The God that was depicted in the OT was much harsher than in the NT. I believe within a time period of 10,000 years BC to about 1800 BC was when Adam/Eve and Abraham, Noah, etc lived. The first fifteen books of the bible happen prior to the birth of Moses. The stories from this era about creation, Adam and Eve, The Flood, Abraham, Noah, etc. were handed down for centuries and perhaps a few thousand years. The first five books of the bible are attributed to Moses and they were not written until about 1400BC. Did God tell him directly what happened in the past as he did in so many other authors and books of the bible? I don't know and neither does anyone else.

Going back in time, you can imagine how things were with early man, waring factions, dinosaurs and just the environment of a earth that was just beginning.
By careful research, I have come to the conclusion that there were many attempts at creating man.(what a firestorm this will create on this thread but your science bears this out.) By scientific accounts and they were many tries even before Crow-Magnum man that lived until about 25,000 years BC. Neanderthal Man (early homo-sapiens) lived until about 10,000 years BC. which accounts for the ancient cities that have been found around the world. However, like other premodern man, they just disappeared and modern man (with larger brain, larger frame, etc) just simply one day existed. Even until and after the arrival of Yeshua of Nazareth (Jesus Christ) approx. 4-5 BC (again your science) times were very hard.

I have researched the bible and history enough to come to 'at least giving the following idea some light'. 'God was on the verge of destroying man again and then he came up with the idea of atonement through Jesus Christ'. This explains the difference in treatment of man and explains that the sightings of God except through Jesus Christ have all but disappeared in the new testament.


I have always heard that the problem with the bible was the translation after re-translation of its scriptures. Yes, there are several versions out there (Islam for one) but the current KJV of the bible is based entirely upon the original writings of Moses. From all the info I can find, the translations from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek scrolls are very accurate to each other with only slight meanings of specific words being changed.


If what you have is a problem of where God came from and how he existed prior to our universe, I cannot help you. That is a leap of Faith you must make yourself (your Choice). As for man's puny science, it has not ruled God out nor have they ruled Him in. I speak of our science as (puny) in that I am comparing it to the science God had to have to create all things

Have a nice Day :>)


Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Yes it would! But I don't think we know how to create wormholes, whereas creating warped space is known to be possible in theory, and design for machines to do it already exist, they are just impossible to build as they need materials that do not occur naturally ("exotic elements" I think they are called, substances that can exist in principle but don't seem to actually exist as far as we can tell!).

Are not 'Black Holes' worm holes? I know what a black hole does and is but it could very well (if passage through it was possible)cross the folds of the universe.

Have a nice Day:>)

Bladerunner

 

[Vassago]

Rabbie: Yes, The God that was depicted in the OT was much harsher than in the NT. I believe within a time period of 10,000 years BC to about 1800 BC was when Adam/Eve and Abraham, Noah, etc lived. The first fifteen books of the bible happen prior to the birth of Moses. The stories from this era about creation, Adam and Eve, The Flood, Abraham, Noah, etc. were handed down for centuries and perhaps a few thousand years. The first five books of the bible are attributed to Moses and they were not written until about 1400BC. Did God tell him directly what happened in the past as he did in so many other authors and books of the bible? I don't know and neither does anyone else.

Going back in time, you can imagine how things were with early man, waring factions, dinosaurs and just the environment of a earth that was just beginning.
By careful research, I have come to the conclusion that there were many attempts at creating man.(what a firestorm this will create on this thread but your science bears this out.) By scientific accounts and they were many tries even before Crow-Magnum man that lived until about 25,000 years BC. Neanderthal Man (early homo-sapiens) lived until about 10,000 years BC. which accounts for the ancient cities that have been found around the world. However, like other premodern man, they just disappeared and modern man (with larger brain, larger frame, etc) just simply one day existed. Even until and after the arrival of Yeshua of Nazareth (Jesus Christ) approx. 4-5 BC (again your science) times were very hard.

I have researched the bible and history enough to come to 'at least giving the following idea some light'. 'God was on the verge of destroying man again and then he came up with the idea of atonement through Jesus Christ'. This explains the difference in treatment of man and explains that the sightings of God except through Jesus Christ have all but disappeared in the new testament.


I have always heard that the problem with the bible was the translation after re-translation of its scriptures. Yes, there are several versions out there (Islam for one) but the current KJV of the bible is based entirely upon the original writings of Moses. From all the info I can find, the translations from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek scrolls are very accurate to each other with only slight meanings of specific words being changed.


If what you have is a problem of where God came from and how he existed prior to our universe, I cannot help you. That is a leap of Faith you must make yourself (your Choice). As for man's puny science, it has not ruled God out nor have they ruled Him in. I speak of our science as (puny) in that I am comparing it to the science God had to have to create all things

Have a nice Day :>)


Bladerunner

How about the simple fact that the Bible was still written by MAN. The Bible itself says MAN is inperfect. What if we got stuff wrong? Anything is possible, isn't it? With so many people dipping their hands in writing the Bible, even if "god" told them to write it, what if they misunderstood something?

 

[Libre]

Going back in time, you can imagine how things were with early man, waring factions, dinosaurs and just the environment of a earth that was just beginning.

You're not seriously suggesting humans and the dinos coexisted at the same time, are you Bladerunner?
That the earth was new when people appeared?
Please explain.

 

[David R]

I have always heard that the problem with the bible was the translation after re-translation of its scriptures. Yes, there are several versions out there (Islam for one) but the current KJV of the bible is based entirely upon the original writings of Moses. From all the info I can find, the translations from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek scrolls are very accurate to each other with only slight meanings of specific words being changed.

The problem with some Christians is they just MAKE THINGS UP rather than admit they are wrong. The KJV did nothing of the sort, it's a Christian-focused retranslation of earlier Jewish translations and Latin manuscripts, commissioned by a political leader to support HIS church in particular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version#Translation

 

[Rabbie]

Rabbie: Yes, The God that was depicted in the OT was much harsher than in the NT. I believe within a time period of 10,000 years BC to about 1800 BC was when Adam/Eve and Abraham, Noah, etc lived. The first fifteen books of the bible happen prior to the birth of Moses. The stories from this era about creation, Adam and Eve, The Flood, Abraham, Noah, etc. were handed down for centuries and perhaps a few thousand years. The first five books of the bible are attributed to Moses and they were not written until about 1400BC. Did God tell him directly what happened in the past as he did in so many other authors and books of the bible? I don't know and neither does anyone else.

Going back in time, you can imagine how things were with early man, waring factions, dinosaurs and just the environment of a earth that was just beginning.
By careful research, I have come to the conclusion that there were many attempts at creating man.(what a firestorm this will create on this thread but your science bears this out.) By scientific accounts and they were many tries even before Crow-Magnum man that lived until about 25,000 years BC. Neanderthal Man (early homo-sapiens) lived until about 10,000 years BC. which accounts for the ancient cities that have been found around the world. However, like other premodern man, they just disappeared and modern man (with larger brain, larger frame, etc) just simply one day existed. Even until and after the arrival of Yeshua of Nazareth (Jesus Christ) approx. 4-5 BC (again your science) times were very hard.

I have researched the bible and history enough to come to 'at least giving the following idea some light'. 'God was on the verge of destroying man again and then he came up with the idea of atonement through Jesus Christ'. This explains the difference in treatment of man and explains that the sightings of God except through Jesus Christ have all but disappeared in the new testament.


I have always heard that the problem with the bible was the translation after re-translation of its scriptures. Yes, there are several versions out there (Islam for one) but the current KJV of the bible is based entirely upon the original writings of Moses. From all the info I can find, the translations from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek scrolls are very accurate to each other with only slight meanings of specific words being changed.


If what you have is a problem of where God came from and how he existed prior to our universe, I cannot help you. That is a leap of Faith you must make yourself (your Choice). As for man's puny science, it has not ruled God out nor have they ruled Him in. I speak of our science as (puny) in that I am comparing it to the science God had to have to create all things

Have a nice Day :>)


Bladerunner

Answers like this are not going to change my view on whether there is a god or not.

There is just so much evidence that our planet (and Homo sapiens) are so much older than your suggestions.

BTW its Cro-magnon not Crow-magnum. They were early Homo sapiens not Neanderthal man who was a separate species. You should check what you write because the inaccuracies tend to detract from the credibility of your arguments.

Have a good day

 

[spikepl]

Crow-magnum .... LOL .. sounds like an NRA-version of world's history

This omnipotent and omniscient guy called God can settle all the disputes by writing a comment here. Or appearing on a talkshow. Or setting up a page on FB ... and a 1-800 number. Hello ????

 

[Mihail]

Have you seen this movie ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_Earth
It is EXCELENT in the context of this debate.

 

[Bladerunner]

You're not seriously suggesting humans and the dinos coexisted at the same time, are you Bladerunner?
That the earth was new when people appeared?
Please explain.

not hardly----just setting the atmosphere! TImes when the early man was around was hard.

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Libre]

not hardly----just setting the atmosphere! TImes when the early man was around was hard.

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

Okay - (whew) - you had me a little worried there, Blade.

 

[Bladerunner]

Answers like this are not going to change my view on whether there is a god or not.

There is just so much evidence that our planet (and Homo sapiens) are so much older than your suggestions.
http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_4.htm
BTW its Cro-magnon not Crow-magnum. They were early Homo sapiens not Neanderthal man who was a separate species. You should check what you write because the inaccuracies tend to detract from the credibility of your arguments.

Have a good day

How old do you think the planet is???? then I think the same way: The difference is when did modern man (homo sapiens sapiens) appeared.

CROW--typing error......

http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_4.htm
http://www.div1grade7.com/studentp/Dennis/ehtime.gif
http://evolutionarytraits.com/human-evolution-homo-sapien-idaltu/

Neanderthals have been lifted from a sub species to a species of Homo Sapiens.
Early (pro-modern) man (homo sapiens idaltu) walked together with Neanderthals until about 25,000 or so years. Early (pro-modern) man separate from Neanderthals started about 200,000 years ago. There have been graves that contain both Cro-Magnom and Neanderthal. Early (pro-modern man) was separate species from Modern man. Modern Man (Homo Sapiens Sapiens) is connected with Mesolithic period (timeline 12-10,000 yrs ago.)

These are records from evolutionist that put these timelines out there not me.

Just think we went from the end of the stone age to the copper age with a new species that just appeared in a matter of few years. Yet it took how long to get us started from pre-mordial ooze.

*By disappeared I mean there are no fossils that have been found. They may be there just not found but like the dark matter, We do not know!

I say it is likely there are no fossils to be found and you say yes there is. So we are back to square one and (the choice).


Have a nice day:>)

Bladerunner:

 

[Galaxiom]

Going back in time, you can imagine how things were with early man, waring factions, dinosaurs and just the environment of a earth that was just beginning.

Dinosaurs and humams never lived together. Sixty five million years separate us from them.

By careful research, I have come to the conclusion that there were many attempts at creating man.

You might have researched carefully but your results are not accurate. Did you carefully avoid anything that contradicted what you set out to prove?

If what you have is a problem of where God came from and how he existed prior to our universe, I cannot help you. That is a leap of Faith you must make yourself (your Choice).

Why make the leap if there is zero evidence for it? You spoke before about crossing a bridge that cannot be seen as though we were crazy yet you cross the gulf of faith for no reason more than you would like it to be true.

As for man's puny science, it has not ruled God out nor have they ruled Him in. I speak of our science as (puny) in that I am comparing it to the science God had to have to create all things

I am getting tired of your put downs about science. Science explains reality without having to resort to supernatural concoctions. A god is not needed to get where we are.

The God hypotheses explains nothing.

 

[Bladerunner]

Okay - (whew) - you had me a little worried there, Blade.

well, it does actually read like man was there with the dinos. should have written it better but was concentrated on the other parts.

Thanks

Have a nice day :>

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

How about the simple fact that the Bible was still written by MAN. The Bible itself says MAN is inperfect. What if we got stuff wrong? Anything is possible, isn't it? With so many people dipping their hands in writing the Bible, even if "god" told them to write it, what if they misunderstood something?

Moses is attributed for writing the first five books contained in the 'KJV'. The rest of the books were also written by the human hand. Yes, we all know man is imperfect and yes, 'anything is possible'----except the laws of Physics... LOL.. a little lite humor...

I understand what you are saying and this is a debate I am having with another on this thread. However, there are people in this thread that would not believe it if it were "written by Gods own hands" (Charlton Heston in the Ten Commandments) in front of them.

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Crow-magnum .... LOL .. sounds like an NRA-version of world's history

This omnipotent and omniscient guy called God can settle all the disputes by writing a comment here. Or appearing on a talkshow. Or setting up a page on FB ... and a 1-800 number. Hello ????

I have a feeling you would not believe it in any form. But your right he could settle this and his son Jesus will at Armageddon!

Sometimes Its hard to take that first step even when you can see the ground before you.

Have a nice day :>)


Bladerunner

 

[Libre]

I have a feeling you would not believe it in any form. But your right he could settle this and his son Jesus will at Armageddon!

Sometimes Its hard to take that first step even when you can see the ground before you.

Have a nice day :>)


Bladerunner

Is Christianity a monotheistic religion or is it polytheistic?
I ask because if the Old Man (God - the creator) is God, and His son is also God, and the Holy Ghost is roaming around there too, I'm counting three.
Then the Catholics also worship Mary, the Mother of God, and it's gettin' kind of crowded up there on the heavenly alter.

We Jews (those who aren't atheists, anyway) say:
Shema Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Echad
translation:
Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One

That's ONE, not three (or four, or more).
The Jews are very specific about this point.
The Jewish God has to be a pretty lonely deity. At least your God has a family life.
Not that the Jews have it right and everyone else has it wrong.
I don't think any biblical or formal conception of God could be accurate.

 

[Bladerunner]

=David R;1328128]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version#Translation

Hi David R.

The problem with some Christians is they just MAKE THINGS UP rather than admit they are wrong.

Thank you saying I just made things up, I kind of thought of it as a ' Working Hypothesis'. To your second statement, I can no more admit that my faith in God is wrong than you can denounce your faith in naturalism, evolution and science.

This part I did not write correctly but left it hanging:
"but the current KJV of the bible is based entirely upon the original writings of Moses".
Should have been; 'and other authors'.

David R.: The KJV did nothing of the sort, it's a Christian-focused retranslation of earlier Jewish translations and Latin manuscripts..

Bladerunner:
I have always heard that the problem with the bible was the translation after re-translation of its scriptures. Yes, there are several versions out there (Islam for one) but the current KJV of the bible is based entirely upon the original writings of Moses. From all the info I can find, the translations from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek scrolls are very accurate to each other with only slight meanings of specific words being changed.

The present KJV of the Bible was commissioned by King James VI . "The translation was done by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England.". It was rewritten using The King James Bible was created using the Masoretic text (OT), Textus Receptus (NT), The Bishop's Bible (1568), and the Geneva Bible (1560) plus;
(all of the following books of course were preceded by the original and ancient manuscripts, and ancient copies made of those. )
1. Latin Vulgate - early 5th century 2. Wycliffe Bible - 1384 3. Tyndale Bible- New Testament 1526, entire Bible 1568 4. Coverdale Bible - 1535 5. Matthews Bible - 1537 6. the "Great Bible" - 1539 7. Geneva Bible - 1599 8. Bishops Bible - 1568 9.the Gutenberg Bible - 1455 Additionally, the Douay Old Testament and the Rheims New Testament were combined to produce: 10. the First Complete English Catholic Bible - 1609.

From what I have read in various places, everything had to agree with most all the text or it was either not written or further researched. Sounds like a pretty good way to ensure the complete and correct word is maintained.

Your a scientist, HOW would you rewrite a book with Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek books and scrolls for translation, ensuring that the words and phrases where as correct as the original manuscripts? (all without a computer) Yes, there have be some changes, all of which where in the translation of the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek languages. Sometimes, a foreign word means two or three things in English

One other note: The dead sea scrolls were discovered between 1947 and 1956 in the Qumran caves near Jericho. Their text was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Nabataean. They have been dated from 408 BCE to 318 CE. Their text AGREE with the King James Versions of the New Testament. So,much for Jesus's anonymity.

1. These dead sea scrolls (900+ text) are from different countries and languages yet they all agree... Whats the ODDs of that happening over a couple of thousand years or so?

David R.: commissioned by a political leader to support HIS church in particular.

England had converted to Protestantism about a century before and wanted to convert the bible from Latin to English.


Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Bladerunner: "By careful research, I have come to the conclusion that there were many attempts at creating man.

You might have researched carefully but your results are not accurate. Did you carefully avoid anything that contradicted what you set out to prove?

Why do you say that. Where did all those versions of man come from. I could take the first version ok... made out of primordial ooze but (9) versions over what 4.0 million years, all suddenly appearing at different time dates and simply disappearing. That is except for the last one which showed up about 10-12,000 years ago. Guess we had been waiting in the ooze long enough! lol. We are still going.

Bladerunner: "As for man's puny science, it has not ruled God out nor have they ruled Him in. I speak of our science as (puny) in that I am comparing it to the science God had to have to create all things"

Galaxxiom: I am getting tired of your put downs about science. Science explains reality without having to resort to supernatural concoctions. A god is not needed to get where we are.The God hypotheses explains nothing.

[/QUOTE]

Somehow I knew you were going to take exception to what I said here even though I qualified it. Our science is not puny to you or ME but it would be beside God!

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Is Christianity a monotheistic religion or is it polytheistic?
I ask because if the Old Man (God - the creator) is God, and His son is also God, and the Holy Ghost is roaming around there too, I'm counting three.
Then the Catholics also worship Mary, the Mother of God, and it's gettin' kind of crowded up there on the heavenly alter.

You have never heard me proclaim Jesus Christ as God. He is the Son of God!. God, his father proclaimed that the only way to heaven for man would be through his son, Jesus Christ.

Jesus's mother Mary is worshiped much like a saint of the Catholic church. Of course, she was human, so was Jesus.

From what I can read in the Bible, God has an army of angels up there. I do not think he gets lonely. Plus He made the Universe. That means that all those other sentient beings out there, he is responsible for!

As for the 'Holy Ghosts', the 'Holy Spirit' I do know that Christianity uses 'Holy' as a way to separate God from the covenant of Christianity? Latin meaning to separate.

The Jewish people have it right BUT they have a different angle of seeing things. Since they are God's chosen people and he has taken care of them all these centuries, well let's just say, they still have to go through Jesus Christ to get to heaven but then they still are on a one to one basis with his father. Of course that is my opinion and not fact.

Judaism was started by what most will tell you Abraham. He was the first to believe in a single god. Christianity of course began in Jerusalem during the time of Christ. Islam started in 600AD and was started by Mohammed. Ala is very lonely there since as a Muslim you have to be exactly like Mohammed to ever get to heaven and see God. That is the reason for the terrorist. Mohammed was not a good guy. Another Day Maybe?

Have a nice day:>)

Bladerunner


Have a nice day:>)

Bladerunner

 

[Galaxiom]

But your right he could settle this and his son Jesus will at Armageddon!

The relish with which believers eagerly await Armageddon is a good reason to work hard at discouraging the young from taking up this horrible death cult.

The believers see Armageddon as the ultimate fulfillment of their faith. It is common to all the Abrahmic faiths with the small difference being that the selection criteria for those chosen to live is slightly different. They will all tell you they are the only ones who are right.

We have every reason to be nervous about those who seek the destruction of life as we know it. They certainly should never be allowed to hold positions where they control public policy because they seek the opportunity to play a part in fulfillment of that prophecy.