Are you an atheist?

[scott-atkinson]

Interesting. Thank you for the information.

Are you sure you still want to come here...

The Tax in the UK is crippling this is why so many with money employ expensive accountants to find the loop holes in the Tax system, whilst the average Joe pays the full amount. I lose well over a third of my income to income Tax, I then have to pay an extra 7.5% on my domestic fuel costs through Value Added Tax, I then pay an extra 20% Value Added Tax on everything I purchase. And finally I have to fill my car with heavily tax levied Diesel....

Yeah, Welcome to the UK... or using it's other title, the Ununited Taxdom

 

[Brianwarnock]

Are you sure you still want to come here...

The Tax in the UK is crippling this is why so many with money employ expensive accountants to find the loop holes in the Tax system, whilst the average Joe pays the full amount. I lose well over a third of my income to income Tax, I then have to pay an extra 7.5% on my domestic fuel costs through Value Added Tax, I then pay an extra 20% Value Added Tax on everything I purchase. And finally I have to fill my car with heavily tax levied Diesel....

Yeah, Welcome to the UK... or using it's other title, the Ununited Taxdom

It sure as hell makes you wonder why all those immigrants pass through the other EU countries to come here.

Brian

 

[scott-atkinson]

It sure as hell makes you wonder why all those immigrants pass through the other EU countries to come here.

Brian

I guess it is because something is better than nothing...

 

[scott-atkinson]

So why not just say asylum seekers?
Why is any further qualification necessary?
Is there by any chance a bias towards East Europeans in your views?

Brian

Brian,

I guess I am biased in my view, but before I started mixing, and in some cases living amongst Eastern Europeans, I had a very similar view to Colin, I felt that the EU Migrants were scroungers, and here taking British jobs. But having seen the other side of the fence, I now feel that before I was ignorant, and fueled by the propaganda in the UK against Migrants.

The Eastern Europeans are extremely hard working, mostly loyal, and very friendly, they are here working because the English people do not want to. We can debate the reasons why English do not take the jobs, whether it be due to pay, location, loss of benefits etc... but the bottom line is that the Migrants exist in the UK because of us, if English people filled the jobs, then the migrants would not come.

As for all the fuss over Romania and Bulgaria joining the EU and the so called influx of gypsies from these nations to the UK, well I was in Romania two weeks ago and was living close to a gypsy area, and believe me some of the houses I saw were like mansions, believe me the gypsies are doing just fine in their own countries.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I guess it is because something is better than nothing...

Which is in keeping with a comment I made earlier that they will work for buttons driving down our wages.

Brian

 

[Galaxiom]

The "work for buttons" scheme was invented by the British Empire while it grew fat and lazy on the backs of those it exploited at a distance.

You can hardly blame some of them turning up in the new smaller world wanting to enjoy some of the fruits of their ancestors labour.

What one sows so shall ye reap.

 

[Galaxiom]

The "work for buttons" scheme was invented by the British Empire while it grew fat and lazy on the backs of those it exploited at a distance.

You can hardly blame some of them turning up in the new smaller world wanting to enjoy some of the fruits of their ancestors' labour.

What one sows so shall ye reap.

 

[pr2-eugin]

I guess I am biased in my view, but before I started mixing, and in some cases living amongst Eastern Europeans, I had a very similar view to Colin, I felt that the EU Migrants were scroungers, and here taking British jobs. But having seen the other side of the fence, I now feel that before I was ignorant, and fueled by the propaganda in the UK against Migrants.

Scott, so you do agree there is always two sides to a story then? If so, you should also try and understand why "Africans" and "Asians" might not all be scroungers of the system; before plainly categorizing them !

 

[pr2-eugin]

What one sows so shall ye reap.

LOL ! Like the way you have put that.

 

[Brianwarnock]

The "work for buttons" scheme was invented by the British Empire while it grew fat and lazy on the backs of those it exploited at a distance.

You can hardly blame some of them turning up in the new smaller world wanting to enjoy some of the fruits of their ancestors' labour.

What one sows so shall ye reap.

The East Europeans were never part of the British Empire.

Brian

 

[scott-atkinson]

Which is in keeping with a comment I made earlier that they will work for buttons driving down our wages.

Brian

The EU migrants that I know all earn just above the Minimum Wage, they are not working for buttons, this is the legal limit set by our Government, if it is wrong it is because our Government has made it so.

 

[scott-atkinson]

Scott, so you do agree there is always two sides to a story then? If so, you should also try and understand why "Africans" and "Asians" might not all be scroungers of the system; before plainly categorizing them !

You are quite right, and again my views on this are probably based on propaganda and news stories...

It is after all news when a Somalia Family get paid by our Government to live in a mansion in London rent free with benefits for their 6 children...

 

[Brianwarnock]

Scott

I have recently lost a good friend, Zolly, who came over from Hungary with his family in 1956, having seen his work ethic I never believed that all asylum seekers or immigrants were lazy.

The fact remains if these people will work for low wages then employers will exploit that to maintain low wages, this is no different to whole companies moving to a low wage economy at the expense of jobs here.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

At some point we appear to have started a new thread.

Brian

 

[scott-atkinson]

Scott

I have recently lost a good friend, Zolly, who came over from Hungary with his family in 1956, having seen his work ethic I never believed that all asylum seekers or immigrants were lazy.

The fact remains if these people will work for low wages then employers will exploit that to maintain low wages, this is no different to whole companies moving to a low wage economy at the expense of jobs here.

Brian

Brian,

It is the Government that see fit to set a minimum wage that nobody in the UK can live adequately on, perhaps that is why British people do not take the jobs, and the Migrants do...

This is the Governments fault that the wages are low, not the Migrants.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I disagree, if nobody would work for that wage then the employers would have to pay more, yes our food bills might rise but the people would have decent income, of course it suits politicians, employers and people in decent jobs for the menial tasks to be low paid.

Brian

 

[Vassago]

We have the same crisis with distribution of wealth happening in our country. The balance continues to shift where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. At this rate, the value of the USD will bottom out. The rich don't realize they are making their own money worthless by not paying fair wages and fighting against any federal increase that comes to bat.

Would you rather have $100 you can buy a grocery cart full of food with or $1000 that buys half?

That's what is happening here. The rich are killing the USD value. Of course, it doesn't help that it's no longer backed by gold and silver.

We also pay over 1/3 in federal taxes alone on earned income, unless you are rich. Then there are state taxes, sales tax, housing tax, luxery taxes (which even the lower class gets hit with.) So, I'm sure taxes are comparable.

 

[scott-atkinson]

I disagree, if nobody would work for that wage then the employers would have to pay more, yes our food bills might rise but the people would have decent income, of course it suits politicians, employers and people in decent jobs for the menial tasks to be low paid.

Brian

Brian,

This is a Chicken and Egg scenario...

The employers pay what they do because the Government sets the limit, so they can and do pay those salaries to who ever is willing to work for it.

If the Government made the Minimum wage higher then British people would more than likely take the jobs and migration would decline..

You will always get unscrupulous employers who will try to pay less than the minimum wage, but it is up to the Government again to enforce this..

 

[nanscombe]

I disagree, if nobody would work for that wage then the employers would have to pay more, yes our food bills might rise but the people would have decent income, of course it suits politicians, employers and people in decent jobs for the menial tasks to be low paid.

Brian

Our food bills might rise ...

... and you might have to travel further to get your groceries, because the food companies may close many of their smaller shops, leaving the massive ones out in the sticks, and make many of their already low paid employees redundant.

They could also install even more self-service tills to further reduce staffing overheads. Who needs six till operators when one person can oversee six self-service tills, whilst the customers do all their own scanning and packing.

There might be an increase in shoplifting but I'm sure that could be built into the pricing.

But yes, those who were left might be better off, unlike their ex-colleagues and the shoppers.

 

[ColinEssex]

I think the "poverty" problem is greatly exaggerated.

Since I took early retirement, I have more income now than I did writing stupid databases for the NHS.
But, and a big but, from the age of 15 I was never out of work, I paid all taxes and pension subs, slogged my guts out, often 18 hours a day holding two jobs at times to afford a mortgage (now all paid off), now I can relax and let the money roll in.

Work is out there, it's just that the modern thinking is to want the state to support everyone too lazy to seek out a job. These so called poor people still find £10 for 20 fags and £3 for a pint.

Col