Are you an atheist? (2 Viewers)

[Bladerunner]

I did a bit more research and latest information on National History Museum and National Geographic and many more renowned scientific websites have claimed "Lucy" to be Australopithecus. But you still havent answered how this fossil can be justified? It is still known to be 3.2 million years old. That Vastly out dates the bible. Explain how something ape like was created over 3 million years before your "creation date" when supposedly all things were created.

wait a minute.....you said in an earlier post: "All your article proclaims is that it isn't part of the Australopithecus family and I do believe I already said it wasn't. Lucy was part of the Ardipithecus Family - not Australopithecus."

I do believe the article in question did place Lucy in the Australopithecus family and you said it was not...Please make up you mind/.

Another quote from that post of ConnorGiles: "Second I've already said Lucy wasn't part of the Australopithecus family and is part of the Ardipithecus. Still a transitional fossil."

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

OK, what we have here is a failure to communicate.

EVERY FOSSIL is transitional. Evolution NEVER STOPS. However, the Biblical crowd cannot accept this fact. Each of us who survives is just a very small amount better than our prior generations. In a mere 2000 years, the average height of an adult male has grown a few inches. In a matter of a few hundred years, the lung capacity of the Sherpa tribesmen (who act as guides for Mt. Everest expeditions) has increased.

Hello Doc Man......I do believe in a small degree of evolution as you stated above. What I have a problem is the evolution you state below. The bible plainly states the GOD made all including the land animals. Dinosaurs-----YES.......Cave men......yes (even mentioned in the Bible)

"The problem is that our lifespan is short with respect to evolution. Therefore, for the Biblical crowd, they don't live long enough to see fish turn into reptiles or reptiles turn into birds - so therefore it must not have happened. With a short history implied in the Bible, of COURSE they can't take the long view on anything."

The Rev. Ussher who came up with that 6000-year history made several assumptions, not the least of which was that if the generation wasn't named in the Bible, it didn't exist. So when he counted generations and multiplied by 30 (or whatever number he actually used), he came up with 6000 years, give or take a few. But what if the Bible didn't discuss all the generations there were? For instance, we don't say that the children of Adam and Eve committed incest, so where did they find their spouses unless other generations existed beforehand to provide same?

I particularly like incest problem. Yes, we do it all the time with animals,,,NO???????.....ah but my dear man,,,we do...... and the Kings and Queens of the UK, and other countries did it to keep the BLUE blood alive?????????????????
God outlawed incest among his people when he handed out the laws to live by (to Moses, roughly 1400BC). On the other hand, at what point (number of people) would you need to survive. 2,,,,NO???????

I am not sure about the dating, because others have been wrong as in the Exodus of the Hebrew People from Egypt. It still remains a problem for us to date things further than a few thousand years back with any reliability. Same way with the Universe. its age is just an assumption. I dare say Theory because there are those in here that say a theory is law or is at the very least real.


Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Blade, you seem to be a little confused about evolution. Many devout Christians believe that evolution is part of God's plan. Why do you think that you know better than them.

Hello Rabbie: It has been a while..... had a feeling you was still out there!

As I stated evolution in the sense that people change to suite their environment, Yes. If you are talking about becoming a man from an Ape like animal previously that came from the sea....NO

We see evolution all the time especially in microbiology where the life spans are such that we can see them. Lets say a bacteria (staph) has become resistant to antibiotics in specific regions of the country. This was caused by the physicians giving antibiotics for the all cure. (i.e. giving antibiotics for the cold or the flu).

Because our cells have been able to adapt, I would also say that this part of evolution is part of God's plan.

Again, it goes down to the dating which scientist have us believe everything is billions of years old simply because it could not be otherwise. Otherwise ...unless a entity (God) made it so. Instead of the millions of years they claim it took for our planet to cool down enough to support life. there is evidence to the contrary that it only took a few thousand years.

You see everything man kind has done done to date in regards to dating has come from a bunch of assumptions. Nothing concrete. Except the written word of God.


Blade

 

[Rabbie]

Hello Rabbie: It has been a while..... had a feeling you was still out there!

As I stated evolution in the sense that people change to suite their environment, Yes. If you are talking about becoming a man from an Ape like animal previously that came from the sea....NO

We see evolution all the time especially in microbiology where the life spans are such that we can see them. Lets say a bacteria (staph) has become resistant to antibiotics in specific regions of the country. This was caused by the physicians giving antibiotics for the all cure. (i.e. giving antibiotics for the cold or the flu).

Because our cells have been able to adapt, I would also say that this part of evolution is part of God's plan.

Again, it goes down to the dating which scientist have us believe everything is billions of years old simply because it could not be otherwise. Otherwise ...unless a entity (God) made it so. Instead of the millions of years they claim it took for our planet to cool down enough to support life. there is evidence to the contrary that it only took a few thousand years.

You see everything man kind has done done to date in regards to dating has come from a bunch of assumptions. Nothing concrete. Except the written word of God.


Blade

So you know better than the Archbishop of Canterbury and many other eminent Churchmen. Your arrogance is breathtaking. Why would a God create a planet with a lot of evidence that it is much older than you say just to confuse his followers? It does not sound that something a loving God would do but perhaps your God if he exists is not as nice as you would have us believe

 

[Galaxiom]

I am not sure about the dating, because others have been wrong as in the Exodus of the Hebrew People from Egypt.

As far as I am aware there is no archaeological evidence for the Hebrews coming from Egypt at all. Genetic evidence from modern Jewish populations not only doesn't support an Egyptian origin but doesn't even suggest a single origin.

The Biblical story includes far fetched aspects such as the Red Sea parting for them to cross, wandering in the desert for forty years to complete a journey that should have taken a few weeks while living on food that fell from the sky.

It still remains a problem for us to date things further than a few thousand years back with any reliability.

Radiocarbon dating has been validated against many other age markers such as tree ring data and is reliable to the order of 30,00 years.

There are many other radiometric dating methods covering a vast range of time scales up to an beyond the age of the Earth.

"For example, a study of the Amitsoq gneisses from western Greenland used five different radiometric dating methods to examine twelve samples and achieved agreement to within 30 Ma (million years) on an age of 3,640 Ma."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

Same way with the Universe. its age is just an assumption. I dare say Theory because there are those in here that say a theory is law or is at the very least real.

No it isn't "just an assumption". It is based on a vast amount of coherent scientific observation combined with a thorough understanding of the physical processes involved.

The distances to celestial objects up to a few thousand light years has been measured by parallax. Even at these relatively short distances the Biblical dating looks ridiculous since it is in the range of the time the light takes to get here.

Longer distances are measured using the observed brightness of a particular type of supernova which is always the same intrinsic brightness. Observations have been made showing galaxies at distances exceeding ten billion light years.

The speed of distant stars is measured using "red shift" frequencies of light in the spectrum of the star.

These two thoroughly investigated techniques show that galaxies recede from the Earth at a speed proportional to their distance. Extrapolating this information leads to the conclusion that the entire Universe came from the same place 13.82 billion years ago.

Meanwhile your Biblical source is based on one huge assumption that the Genesis account is correct despite there being zero evidence to support it and it being contrary to all observation.

 

[Bladerunner]

So you know better than the Archbishop of Canterbury and many other eminent Churchmen. Your arrogance is breathtaking.

WHO? do they get into their breeches the same way I do (one leg at a time). The last I heard they will die and be resurrected for judgement, the same as I will. One other note: I have heard all kinds of unfair, un-nicities said about the catholic church and its leaders. No, It was not from you but you did not denounce it either. I guess that makes me just a little less arrogant than the others.

p.s. I do not even know nor have I heard of what their stance on evolution is. Evidently, We are not of the same opinion.

Why would a God create a planet with a lot of evidence that it is much older than you say just to confuse his followers? It does not sound that something a loving God would do but perhaps your God if he exists is not as nice as you would have us believe

where is the evidence it is much older. If we are confused, it is because we are not as smart as we think we are.

What has God's love got to do with how we (man) think and come to conclusions concerning on his activities. I am sure my wife of many years has seen me do things she would not agree with , yet she does not say anything and in the end forgives me and still loves me. Love is not conditional.

have a great evening and coming weekend Rabbi. It has been good talking to you again.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

As far as I am aware there is no archaeological evidence for the Hebrews coming from Egypt at all. Genetic evidence from modern Jewish populations not only doesn't support an Egyptian origin but doesn't even suggest a single origin.

From what I have read there is not a consensus among scientist on whether the mtDNA undergoes recombination. Until this is resolved,,, your simply out in left field

The Biblical story includes far fetched aspects such as the Red Sea parting for them to cross, wandering in the desert for forty years to complete a journey that should have taken a few weeks while living on food that fell from the sky.

The (reed) Red Sea indeed exist and its bottom is littered with chariot wheels, bodies of men and horses. Check it out.

As far as wondering for forty years, it was God punishment to the Israeli people because of their disobedience at Mt. Sinai. Yes, God did feed them. Just because he was mad at them, he still loved them.

The picture shows: Pillars that may commemorate the Red Sea crossing by the ancient Israelites have been discovered in recent years on both sides of the Gulf of Aqaba arm of the Red Sea. One on the Egyptian shore and another located on the Arabian side with “the legible remains of ancient paleo-Hebrew inscriptions.” Evidently the words for pharaoh, death, Egypt, King Solomon and the sacred name of God, YHWH, are all present on the second pillar.

OOPs! The more man hunts for the beginning in his own view the more he finds God has already been there.

Radiocarbon dating has been validated against many other age markers such as tree ring data and is reliable to the order of 30,00 years. There are many other radiometric dating methods covering a vast range of time scales up to an beyond the age of the Earth.

"For example, a study of the Amitsoq gneisses from western Greenland used five different radiometric dating methods to examine twelve samples and achieved agreement to within 30 Ma (million years) on an age of 3,640 Ma."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

No it isn't "just an assumption". It is based on a vast amount of coherent scientific observation combined with a thorough understanding of the physical processes involved.

The distances to celestial objects up to a few thousand light years has been measured by parallax. Even at these relatively short distances the Biblical dating looks ridiculous since it is in the range of the time the light takes to get here.

Longer distances are measured using the observed brightness of a particular type of supernova which is always the same intrinsic brightness. Observations have been made showing galaxies at distances exceeding ten billion light years.

The speed of distant stars is measured using "red shift" frequencies of light in the spectrum of the star. These two thoroughly investigated techniques show that galaxies recede from the Earth at a speed proportional to their distance. Extrapolating this information leads to the conclusion that the entire Universe came from the same place 13.82 billion years ago.

Meanwhile your Biblical source is based on one huge assumption that the Genesis account is correct despite there being zero evidence to support it and it being contrary to all observation.

first everyone has told me (when I bring up Wikipedia)that it is unreliable since everyone can change it. So it is out....Sorry!

. From what I have read it is apparent that millions of years worth of radioactive decay has occurred in a extreme rapid acceleration during a short period of time. If it had not Hellium could not have become trapped in granites, radiohalos (Polonium) could not have left their signature and "fission tracks" could not have formed. Strange about him leaving these bits of evidence that are conveniently ignored by MAN

Genesis 1,1: In the Beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth and
Ask yourself, why do secular scientist fear that these radiodating figures are wrong? Is it enough fear for secular scientist to screw the results concerning the falsehoods of radiodating in order to fit their worldviews. If he could create the universe and man then he could certainly accelerate the time which would effect radiodating, distance/light dating and all other sorts of measurement.

What we as Christians have is a assumption and that assumption is the word of GOD written in the bible surviving thousands of years, several rewrites (alarming accuracies) and many attempts by man to destroy it.

What you atheist, secular scientist have are a set of assumptions that every thing started with a certain set of Physical laws (God made them) while your predictions are based on the fact that nothing can break these laws except maybe NEW laws. I guess I could call it 'the written word of MAN'.....impressive

Blade

 

[Galaxiom]

From what I have read there is not a consensus among scientist on whether the mtDNA undergoes recombination. Until this is resolved,,, your simply out in left field

The mitochondria is a separate entity that lives in the cytoplasm of the cell. There is no evidence being involved in genetic recombination and it has never been observed to do so. Such notions are speculation by believers masquerading as scientists because they are desperate to make the Biblical account scientifically plausible.

The (reed) Red Sea indeed exist and its bottom is littered with chariot wheels, bodies of men and horses. Check it out.

Where do I check it out? If such things were on the bottom they would have been recovered and examined and everyone would know about it. Your claim is wholly unsubstantiated.

The picture shows: Pillars that may commemorate the Red Sea crossing by the ancient Israelites have been discovered in recent years on both sides of the Gulf of Aqaba arm of the Red Sea. One on the Egyptian shore and another located on the Arabian side with “the legible remains of ancient paleo-Hebrew inscriptions.” Evidently the words for pharaoh, death, Egypt, King Solomon and the sacred name of God, YHWH, are all present on the second pillar.

You show a photo of a pillar. Once again, if it was from the time of Exodus it would be common knowledge.

You can visit the pillar of salt that was supposed to have come from Lot's wife too. Religious fakes abound.

The more man hunts for the beginning in his own view the more he finds God has already been there.

No. The more man hunts the less places remain for God.

first everyone has told me (when I bring up Wikipedia)that it is unreliable since everyone can change it. So it is out....Sorry!

Research has shown that Wikipedia is reliable on hard science because any nonsense is removed.

From what I have read it is apparent that millions of years worth of radioactive decay has occurred in a extreme rapid acceleration during a short period of time. If it had not Hellium could not have become trapped in granites, radiohalos (Polonium) could not have left their signature and "fission tracks" could not have formed.

Not according to prevailing scientific knowledge. All you have read is speculation from believers who have zero evidence to support their view.

If he could create the universe and man then he could certainly accelerate the time which would effect radiodating, distance/light dating and all other sorts of measurement.

Such speculative claims are necessary for the Biblical account to fit the evidence. The alternative and far more likely conclusion is that the Biblical account is utter nonsense.

 

[Galaxiom]

What has God's love got to do with how we (man) think and come to conclusions concerning on his activities. Love is not conditional.

Your God's "love" is extremely conditional on complete unquestioning compliance to His every rule. Fail to meet His expectations and He will curse with eternal damnation.

In fact the relationship between God and His followers is a classic case of an abusive relationship. He tells us we are born bad and only through Him can we ever be worth anything.

Jesus is nothing more than the public face of an abuser who pretends to the world that he is a great guy.

 

[Bladerunner]

[

QUOTE=Galaxiom;1423029]Your God's "love" is extremely conditional on complete unquestioning compliance to His every rule. Fail to meet His expectations and He will curse with eternal damnation.

In fact the relationship between God and His followers is a classic case of an abusive relationship. He tells us we are born bad and only through Him can we ever be worth anything.

Jesus is nothing more than the public face of an abuser who pretends to the world that he is a great guy.

[/QUOTE]

Not True:

As a child you are without sin. Everyone sins when they get to a knowing age. As I believe you stated at one time (forgive me if I am wrong), but you believe there is nothing after death. That is all that God offers you if you cannot come to live by his standards. If not you shall not have everlasting life.

He tells in thru Adam and Eve that they are in a paradise equivalent to heaven. Yet she thru satan throws all that away and damns us all to a life of sin. Jesus came along and died for all our sins, past , present and future. All he ask is that you believeth in him for thru him is everlasting life.

You already believe in what you will die of. Nothing! You can change that at anytime before your death.Your Choice.!

 

[Galaxiom]

As a child you are without sin. Everyone sins when they get to a knowing age.

Where in the Bible does it say that?

As I believe you stated at one time (forgive me if I am wrong), but you believe there is nothing after death. That is all that God offers you if you cannot come to live by his standards. If not you shall not have everlasting life.

I don't know what happens after death. However I would prefer nothing to living by the psychopathic standards of the God Of Abraham

He tells in thru Adam and Eve that they are in a paradise equivalent to heaven. Yet she thru satan throws all that away and damns us all to a life of sin.

Typical of the misogynist rubbish in your religion.

Jesus came along and died for all our sins, past , present and future. All he ask is that you believeth in him for thru him is everlasting life.

As I have asked before, who decided that death of an innocent is required for forgiveness? Clearly since your God created everything He created that rule.

Indeed the Old Testament goes into great length to explain what innocent animal is an acceptable sacrifice for a sin.

You religion is a psychopathic death cult that controls people though fear of retribution by your God.

 

[Bladerunner]

Where do I check it out? If such things were on the bottom they would have been recovered and examined and everyone would know about it. Your claim is wholly unsubstantiated.You show a photo of a pillar. Once again, if it was from the time of Exodus it would be common knowledge.You can visit the pillar of salt that was supposed to have come from Lot's wife too. Religious fakes abound.

Here are two. one the crossing of the Red Sea. This one is more an archeological trip through ancient Egypt and Arabia. The second is the finding of the real Mt. Sinai.

As you say, if found they would be a real find and should be known world wide. However, as you will see the placement of Mt. Sinai places it in a place that if known by the inhabitants, they would destroy all evidence. This one also has a trail of the exodus which is different from Red Sea Crossing because it is the Egyptian Mt. Sinai (false one)

Pay close attention to what you see and the scripture. They match pretty close. As they say at the end, unless you have a team of archeologist in there one cannot be certain but if it quacks like a duck or walks like a duck, well you decide.

And yes these films are not secular. One of yours would not be caught dead producing one of these. You and they hate God and the resulting religion too give a different opinion.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...&mid=4BC05113104F6B8D81814BC05113104F6B8D8181 (Red Sea Crossing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ubKUip6pz0 (confirms Ron Wyatt Red Sea Crossing and the real Mt. Sinai)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mB5Aw14e4M (The real Mt. Sinai)


I know......... that you are going to throw off on these as religious falsehoods. They do show scripture along with geographical places on this earth which is one reason why you stated the Bible is Bad. Nothing fits but Exodus really happened, There is history of it and Mt. Sinai really exist.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Rabbie: You might be interested in the video(s) I just gave to Galaxiom.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Where in the Bible does it say that?

[/quote]

Matthew 19:14: But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

As I have asked before, who decided that death of an innocent is required for forgiveness? Clearly since your God created everything He created that rule.

[/quote]

God gave Moses the commandments his people to live by. Up until Jesus showed up, the rules were for the Israelis. When Jesus died it give the gentiles a way to reach heaven. I have heard your hatred for him hut he does love you and only ask that you believeth in him. If you do not in the end of your life, only you and God will know. It always has been your choice. Nobody especially me is trying to drag you there.

I will say this, that for all of you who do not believe, I pray that God will give you enough time in the seconds before you die to make a final choice.

Blade

 

[ConnorGiles]

wait a minute.....you said in an earlier post: "All your article proclaims is that it isn't part of the Australopithecus family and I do believe I already said it wasn't. Lucy was part of the Ardipithecus Family - not Australopithecus."

I do believe the article in question did place Lucy in the Australopithecus family and you said it was not...Please make up you mind/.

Another quote from that post of ConnorGiles: "Second I've already said Lucy wasn't part of the Australopithecus family and is part of the Ardipithecus. Still a transitional fossil."

Blade

That would be called finding evidence that counter acts previous statements. Here is a massive difference between lack of religion and religion blade. We actually try and prove ourselves wrong and in essence proving religion wrong just comes with the package. Religion just tries and prove science wrong with no thought to their own belief system.

 

[ConnorGiles]

I particularly like incest problem.

I have no idea what to think on this

I am not sure about the dating, because others have been wrong as in the Exodus of the Hebrew People from Egypt. It still remains a problem for us to date things further than a few thousand years back with any reliability. Same way with the Universe. its age is just an assumption. I dare say Theory because there are those in here that say a theory is law or is at the very least real.

We decipher the rough age of the universe via a few methods. One of them being studying the way stars are born, evolve and die. White dwarf stars are a great example as they are what the sun will eventually look like (or to clarify they were once like the sun).

Some of my information was added from this website. You may learn something here blade.

http://stardate.org/astro-guide/btss/cosmology/age_of_the_universe

ALSO you never answered my main question? How do you explain fossils found to be countless years older than your religion claims the universe to be? If dating the fossils is an issue. I think we would have noticed a T-REX walking around a good couple of thousand years ago

 

[ConnorGiles]

In a mere 2000 years, the average height of an adult male has grown a few inches.

I'm 6'5 / 6'6 the closest person in my family to my height was my great grandfather who was 6'4 (My Mom and dad are just under 6 foot, Before someone says I'm adopted I'm not.)

And a guy in my work is 6'9!

 

[ConnorGiles]

You see everything man kind has done done to date in regards to dating has come from a bunch of assumptions. Nothing concrete. Except the written word of God.

PLEASE, PLEASE... Tell me no one missed this?

 

[ConnorGiles]

I will say this, that for all of you who do not believe, I pray that God will give you enough time in the seconds before you die to make a final choice.

Thanks bud, (I Guess)

I hope Cthulhu takes mercy on you and devours you quickly and painlessly.

EDIT: Oh, and I hope you don't go completely insane beforehand in his presence.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Connor - regarding this:

You see everything man kind has done done to date in regards to dating has come from a bunch of assumptions. Nothing concrete. Except the written word of God.

Galaxiom did a number on that on the previous page.

Your quote in the following post makes me think of a comeback a friend of mine has when someone tells him they'll pray for him: "And I'll talk to my cat about you. It'll have just as much effect."