Are you an atheist?

[Brianwarnock]

Vassago have a question for you?

If a transgender male wants to be a women and dresses like a woman right? Now, HIS (still has a penis) sexual orientation is to men. It is still homosexuality.

If a transgender male wants to be a woman and dresses like a woman right????? Now, HIS (still has a penis) sexual orientation is to women. It is normal, a little kinky but a man and woman.

Using a woman would simply the same for her.

Is this a fair observation?

Blade

Seems to me Blade that you are hung up on the physical side of things, but then religion does seem to be obsessed with sex.
You may have married purely for physical reasons but I didn't.

One further question to add to the above questions of yours, if the transgender has surgery to remove the penis does it alter the outcome? You see I think your answers are the wrong way round.

Brian

 

[Vassago]

Here you are wrong. all sins are not equal in God's eyes. However, if you do lie to your father or steal something then a trend is emerging that will likely to give you a lifetime of problems sometimes leading to the very sins that are punishable by eternal death. kidnapping, adultery, Murder. Of course you can always repent and ask for forgiveness.

Blade

Really? This is what I was taught in Church and gathered from the Bible growing up. There are plenty of references that make it seem so.

James 2:10 (NIV)

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Romans 3:23 (NIV)

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Vassago have a question for you?

If a transgender male wants to be a women and dresses like a woman right? Now, HIS (still has a penis) sexual orientation is to men. It is still homosexuality.

If a transgender male wants to be a woman and dresses like a woman right????? Now, HIS (still has a penis) sexual orientation is to women. It is normal, a little kinky but a man and woman.

Using a woman would simply the same for her.

Is this a fair observation?

Blade

That could be your observation. I don't consider one more normal than the other, post-op or pre-op. I'm sure this is where we will disagree. There's really no helping that.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The difference between transvestite and transgender is important (for this discussion) because the TV might just have an unusual or kinky or abnormal attachment to an image. The TV might just be immersed in a fantasy world without actually being homosexual. I've known a few folks who were fantasy cross-dressers and knew the difference. (Still not my bag, but then again, chacun a son gu.)

The TG, however, also has the feeling of having been born into the wrong body. This is one of the possible outcomes of my previous post where I referenced research showing that it is possible for a person to have a brain configuration like that of the opposite gender, and if the brain goes, the rest of the body follows.

It is a much more deep-seated condition for the TG. The TG may wish to ALSO be a TV pre-change, but it is not a fantasy. The TG will eventually want the surgical change. Which leads to the philosophical question of whether a post-surgical TG wearing the clothing appropriate to the post-surgical plumbing is now a TV. I would say "NO" but it is clear that Blade and his misguided cronies would say "YES."

It might go far afield here, but consider the world of COSPLAY, which has been the subject of more than a few television specials and series. There, the issue is the image of temporarily being what you are not. The non-homosexual TV can fit into the general Cosplay crowd (along with the "furries" and the "superheroes" and the "mangas"...) The main difference between the furries, mangas, superheroes, and TVs is their costuming preference. All of which leads back to the old adage about not being able to judge a book by its cover.

 

[Vassago]

The difference between transvestite and transgender is important (for this discussion) because the TV might just have an unusual or kinky or abnormal attachment to an image. The TV might just be immersed in a fantasy world without actually being homosexual. I've known a few folks who were fantasy cross-dressers and knew the difference. (Still not my bag, but then again, chacun a son gu.)

The TG, however, also has the feeling of having been born into the wrong body. This is one of the possible outcomes of my previous post where I referenced research showing that it is possible for a person to have a brain configuration like that of the opposite gender, and if the brain goes, the rest of the body follows.

It is a much more deep-seated condition for the TG. The TG may wish to ALSO be a TV pre-change, but it is not a fantasy. The TG will eventually want the surgical change. Which leads to the philosophical question of whether a post-surgical TG wearing the clothing appropriate to the post-surgical plumbing is now a TV. I would say "NO" but it is clear that Blade and his misguided cronies would say "YES."

It might go far afield here, but consider the world of COSPLAY, which has been the subject of more than a few television specials and series. There, the issue is the image of temporarily being what you are not. The non-homosexual TV can fit into the general Cosplay crowd (along with the "furries" and the "superheroes" and the "mangas"...) The main difference between the furries, mangas, superheroes, and TVs is their costuming preference. All of which leads back to the old adage about not being able to judge a book by its cover.

And no matter if they are transvestite or transgender, their orientation is not even a part of that discussion or decision.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Changing topic, I might not be a Christian but I think this judge is wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32791239

I wonder if I can have cake with the slogan "support Sharia Law" or " support community brothels"
People should be allowed to have their views and values the chap could easily have gone elsewhere, why should his views prevail over the proprieters'

Brian

 

[Vassago]

Changing topic, I might not be a Christian but I think this judge is wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32791239

I wonder if I can have cake with the slogan "support Sharia Law" or " support community brothels"
People should be allowed to have their views and values the chap could easily have gone elsewhere, why should his views prevail over the proprieters'

Brian

Agreed. As a private business, it should be ok for him to refuse to write a specific slogan. We've had similar problems in recent months with private business owners exercising their write to not support specific ideals, regardless of the customer.

 

[Bladerunner]

Seems to me Blade that you are hung up on the physical side of things, but then religion does seem to be obsessed with sex.
You may have married purely for physical reasons but I didn't.

One further question to add to the above questions of yours, if the transgender has surgery to remove the penis does it alter the outcome? You see I think your answers are the wrong way round.

Brian

Married for love and have been at it over a half century.

The other questions answer is NO, he is still a Male genetically speaking.

p.s. I was asking Vassago was meaning about the differences in being Gay and Transgender. You see when it comes down to it, it is all the same.


Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Really? This is what I was taught in Church and gathered from the Bible growing up. There are plenty of references that make it seem so.

[/quote]

you quoted James 2:10...... check out James 2:11.....

.11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Each law has its own punishment?

Sorry

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Vassago you quote Romans 3:23

Look to Romans 3:22,24.......

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


Because of the Apple fiasco, we are all sinners. But then you know the way out of that, don't you? Romans 3:24


Blade
\

 

[Vassago]

Married for love and have been at it over a half century.

The other questions answer is NO, he is still a Male genetically speaking.

p.s. I was asking Vassago was meaning about the differences in being Gay and Transgender. You see when it comes down to it, it is all the same.


Blade

It isn't "all the same." Someone can feel they are the opposite sex, but still choose to be gay or straight based on the sex that they are. No matter how you look at it or your position on the scenario, you cannot look at transgender and gay as the same thing because they very well could be a male and female, either post-op or pre-op. Depending on your beliefs, that's either gay or not, but both scenarios are not the same.

To me, however someone identifies is what they are. If a biological male identifies as female, they are female. If they prefer men, they are not gay. If they prefer women, they are lesbian.

They cannot be gay/lesbian in both of these scenarios, that doesn't make sense.

Does that make sense?

 

[Vassago]

Vassago you quote Romans 3:23

Look to Romans 3:22,24.......

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


Because of the Apple fiasco, we are all sinners. But then you know the way out of that, don't you? Romans 3:24


Blade
\

So, they are all forgiven the same, what difference does it make?

Either way, Jesus was all-forgiving, why can't his followers feel the same. How can they feel that by forgiving someone for their sins in any way endorses them? It makes no sense to me considering the person who they follow did and taught to do so.

 

[Bladerunner]

The difference between transvestite and transgender is important (for this discussion) because the TV might just have an unusual or kinky or abnormal attachment to an image. The TV might just be immersed in a fantasy world without actually being homosexual. I've known a few folks who were fantasy cross-dressers and knew the difference. (Still not my bag, but then again, chacun a son gu.)

The TG, however, also has the feeling of having been born into the wrong body. This is one of the possible outcomes of my previous post where I referenced research showing that it is possible for a person to have a brain configuration like that of the opposite gender, and if the brain goes, the rest of the body follows.

It is a much more deep-seated condition for the TG. The TG may wish to ALSO be a TV pre-change, but it is not a fantasy. The TG will eventually want the surgical change. Which leads to the philosophical question of whether a post-surgical TG wearing the clothing appropriate to the post-surgical plumbing is now a TV. I would say "NO" but it is clear that Blade and his misguided cronies would say "YES."

It might go far afield here, but consider the world of COSPLAY, which has been the subject of more than a few television specials and series. There, the issue is the image of temporarily being what you are not. The non-homosexual TV can fit into the general Cosplay crowd (along with the "furries" and the "superheroes" and the "mangas"...) The main difference between the furries, mangas, superheroes, and TVs is their costuming preference. All of which leads back to the old adage about not being able to judge a book by its cover.

Thanks Doc,,,I think?

 

[Bladerunner]

Changing topic, I might not be a Christian but I think this judge is wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32791239

I wonder if I can have cake with the slogan "support Sharia Law" or " support community brothels"
People should be allowed to have their views and values the chap could easily have gone elsewhere, why should his views prevail over the proprieters'

Brian

This would not have happened if the proprietors had not been Christian even if they would not make the cake.

There is no tolerance for Christianity out there with the liberals, Gay and Atheist. You want us to stay home and practice our religion in hiding? I have said this would happen in earlier posts. The day will come when they force a man of God to marry in a church 'under God' two (LBGTs or three) or face fines and/or jail. In addition, after the liberal judges get through legislating from the bench, America will get exactly what it deserves.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

It isn't "all the same." Someone can feel they are the opposite sex, but still choose to be gay or straight based on the sex that they are. No matter how you look at it or your position on the scenario, you cannot look at transgender and gay as the same thing because they very well could be a male and female, either post-op or pre-op. Depending on your beliefs, that's either gay or not, but both scenarios are not the same.

To me, however someone identifies is what they are. If a biological male identifies as female, they are female. If they prefer men, they are not gay. If they prefer women, they are lesbian.

They cannot be gay/lesbian in both of these scenarios, that doesn't make sense.

Does that make sense?

Again, it is OK with me, I would not avoid someone because of it, but then best buds would not be in the cards?????????????????????///

As I stated before we will all have to answer to GOD and only GOD.
Matthew 10,32,33

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

So, they are all forgiven the same, what difference does it make?

Either way, Jesus was all-forgiving, why can't his followers feel the same. How can they feel that by forgiving someone for their sins in any way endorses them? It makes no sense to me considering the person who they follow did and taught to do so.

Vassago the penalty for Murder is Death eternally.

I cannot forgive someone of their sins(nor can the POPE)..How can I forgive someone for doing something that has not affected me. Being able to forgive someone for what they have done to me or my family is a little different.

Is not toleration enough????????It neither castigates nor endorses them!!!!!. To answer the question,,,NO it is not????? Now can someone tell me why it is not enough??????

Blade

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Blade,

The day will come when they force a man of God to marry in a church 'under God' two (LBGTs or three) or face fines and/or jail.

Even the most virulent supporter of LGBT does not want that. You are tossing up an argument for a non-existent question. What we want is that you NOT get in the way of a judge performing a civil marriage. By the way, there are some congregations who support inclusion rather than exclusion who already perform LGBT marriages in a church. It is the yammerhead religious extremist who pushes out fabricated stories of the horrors of such marriages.

Of course, those same yammerheads are the types who believe that the woman must be subservient to her husband, including times when he wants to punish her by beating her. The "man is the lord and master" belief is absolutely and unequivocally worse than any of the lies promulgated by religious whack jobs with respect to homosexuality.

Is not toleration enough????????It neither castigates nor endorses them!!!!!. To answer the question,,,NO it is not????? Now can someone tell me why it is not enough??????

It is not enough when you place your beliefs that are made by your choice as superior to the civil rights of those for whom, at least in many cases, their condition is NOT a choice. Remember this: Religion is a CHOICE. You are born atheist and must be taught about religion. You can have a religion instilled in you and observe it for 30+ years but then CHOOSE to change religious beliefs to something else - including atheism. The latter sentence describes me accurately. Religion is a CHOICE. For you to use your free choice of religion as an excuse to deny equal civil rights to those who did not have a choice in their condition is NOT tolerance. But ... even if being gay WAS a choice, SO IS YOUR CHOICE OF RELIGION!!!! One choice vs. another, and who among us is to say which one is right? According to the U.S. Constitution, no-one. It is NOT tolerance to deny the right of marriage to gays any more than it would be tolerance to allow followers of Sharia Law into a neighborhood as long as they don't try to follow their religion.

Blade, you just don't get it. Religion does not make you "holier than thou" with respect to others. It does not make you a better person than someone else. I've known people whose religion is vicious and cruel. And I should consider that because of their religion, they are good people? Having a religion doesn't make you a good person. Learning the REAL meaning of tolerance is more important.

I'll close with this thought: It is not simple tolerance that you should learn from your religion. It is the combination of forgiveness and acceptance. Those two conditions are FAR stronger than simple tolerance - and far more important. Being tolerant is ignoring the lessons that are clearly in the Bible regarding what it REALLY means to "love thy neighbor as thyself." Your attitude isn't love - it is the silent, grudging cooperation of the petulant child who can't understand why someone thinks he is so naughty.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Blade,



Even the most virulent supporter of LGBT does not want that. You are tossing up an argument for a non-existent question. What we want is that you NOT get in the way of a judge performing a civil marriage. By the way, there are some congregations who support inclusion rather than exclusion who already perform LGBT marriages in a church. It is the yammerhead religious extremist who pushes out fabricated stories of the horrors of such marriages.

I don't know the outcome of this case or indeed if they ever actually did it - but the legal warnings are there

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mike-judge/church-sued-over-gay-marriage_b_3804548.html

The green party here is open to polygamous weddings.

The first gay wedding was just down the road from me - in a church I visit on social occasion. Good for them - however that doesn't mean I would like to see all churches forced to do the same and multiple weddings.


I'd bet the day will come also.

 

[dan-cat]

Changing topic, I might not be a Christian but I think this judge is wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32791239

I wonder if I can have cake with the slogan "support Sharia Law" or " support community brothels"
People should be allowed to have their views and values the chap could easily have gone elsewhere, why should his views prevail over the proprieters'

Brian

Next time I'm in London I shall go to a cake shop in Chelsea and ask for a Manchester United cake. I'll let you know what happens.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Next time I'm in London I shall go to a cake shop in Chelsea and ask for a Manchester United cake. I'll let you know what happens.

You'll be fine the owner was a city fan last year, a united fan the year before that, and a Chelsea fan till someone else wins subsequently.

You could try asking for a United cake in Manchester cake shop!

 

[Libre]

Blade,



Even the most virulent supporter of LGBT does not want that. You are tossing up an argument for a non-existent question. What we want is that you NOT get in the way of a judge performing a civil marriage. By the way, there are some congregations who support inclusion rather than exclusion who already perform LGBT marriages in a church. It is the yammerhead religious extremist who pushes out fabricated stories of the horrors of such marriages.

Of course, those same yammerheads are the types who believe that the woman must be subservient to her husband, including times when he wants to punish her by beating her. The "man is the lord and master" belief is absolutely and unequivocally worse than any of the lies promulgated by religious whack jobs with respect to homosexuality.



It is not enough when you place your beliefs that are made by your choice as superior to the civil rights of those for whom, at least in many cases, their condition is NOT a choice. Remember this: Religion is a CHOICE. You are born atheist and must be taught about religion. You can have a religion instilled in you and observe it for 30+ years but then CHOOSE to change religious beliefs to something else - including atheism. The latter sentence describes me accurately. Religion is a CHOICE. For you to use your free choice of religion as an excuse to deny equal civil rights to those who did not have a choice in their condition is NOT tolerance. But ... even if being gay WAS a choice, SO IS YOUR CHOICE OF RELIGION!!!! One choice vs. another, and who among us is to say which one is right? According to the U.S. Constitution, no-one. It is NOT tolerance to deny the right of marriage to gays any more than it would be tolerance to allow followers of Sharia Law into a neighborhood as long as they don't try to follow their religion.

Blade, you just don't get it. Religion does not make you "holier than thou" with respect to others. It does not make you a better person than someone else. I've known people whose religion is vicious and cruel. And I should consider that because of their religion, they are good people? Having a religion doesn't make you a good person. Learning the REAL meaning of tolerance is more important.

I'll close with this thought: It is not simple tolerance that you should learn from your religion. It is the combination of forgiveness and acceptance. Those two conditions are FAR stronger than simple tolerance - and far more important. Being tolerant is ignoring the lessons that are clearly in the Bible regarding what it REALLY means to "love thy neighbor as thyself." Your attitude isn't love - it is the silent, grudging cooperation of the petulant child who can't understand why someone thinks he is so naughty.

Very well thought out and written.
I hope the target audience (you know who you are) sees the value and the truth in what you wrote, Doc Man.