Are you an atheist? (2 Viewers)

[ColinEssex]

As a member of the citizens of the USA, . . . . . . . . .I'm still not concerned about the world's opinion.

Maybe you should be then.
The USA citizens are so insular they care or know nothing of what happens outside the USA borders.

Perhaps - just perhaps the world may be a safer place if the USA citizens did a little more to influence their leaders into doing something to benefit the world and not destroy it for all mankind.

Col

 

[Mike375]

Maybe you should be then.
The USA citizens are so insular they care or know nothing of what happens outside the USA borders.

They are no different to people from othe countries in the sense they know what they need to know. For example, American shooters/hunters who go to Africa can have a knowledge on African countries, including the current political situations that are far above average.

I think I have a good knowledge of America but my knowledge of England is very poor and for the simple reason that almost none of my interests or activities require me to know anything about England.

America is also similar to the largest city in a country. I would bet that people in towns or villages in England know far more about London and what is happening in London than to London people know about the happenings in small towns.

You and Rich are all big on the Iraq war, terrorism etc with respect to America but you depend entirely on what you read or see on TV.

 

[ShaneMan]

Shaney - I have been called worse than hypocritical on these forums. Someone called me a product of Hitlers youth. A banty rooster seems fairly tame.
Col

Collie, I really wasn't trying to call you anything. It just appeared to me that what you said in your original post is the opposite of what you normally do. A banty rooster is fairly tame but he doesn't think so.

 

[Rich]

You and Rich are all big on the Iraq war, terrorism etc with respect to America but you depend entirely on what you read or see on TV.

How does one get to learn about the word of god?

 

[Mike375]

How does one get to learn about the word of god?

There are two answers to that question. The first is of course reading and the second will be observation. Of course conclusions or ideas that stem from obersvations are also dependent on reading as that forms a basis of knowledeg to add meaning to the observations. Thus for someone with a very limited knowledge of science the observation of a pin floating on water is almost magic. Another person knows the pin is not floating but is supported by the surface tension of the water.

So I basically gather information the same as you. However, I do not automaticlly exclude things and I leave room for doubt. There is a good reason I leave room for doubt. In the areas of my life where I have direct evidence/exprience the written word, especially via the media, is often very wrong and at best only party true.

If we take Iraq/Bush I have views that US/Bush stuffed up quite a bit. However, I have never been to meetings at the White House or in Iraq etc and etc. I also know that it is very political and thus the media will chime in with different slants. So my views will be limited in their accuracy.

You on the other hand seem to place a total belief in what you read.

 

[Rich]

You on the other hand seem to place a total belief in what you read.

I examine and read many many articles on the subject before coming to the correct conclusion, as I said to you before you accept the word of just one, now , who's coming to incorrect conclusions?

 

[Mike375]

I examine and read many many articles on the subject before coming to the correct conclusion, as I said to you before you accept the word of just one, now , who's coming to incorrect conclusions?

But how do you know your concusion is definitely correct when lack direct evidence.

I don't accept the Bible except for some parts. My feeling that a supernatural exists is not Bible based. On the thread/poll I clicked agnostic. That poll would have been better if it had two categories of agnostic.

1) Agnostic but a leaning to a supernatural existing
2) Agnostic but a leaning to atheism.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I examine and read many many articles on the subject before coming to the correct conclusion,

That must be the most arrogant statement I have read since, well, reading a Tony Bliar speach.

Brian

 

[dan-cat]

The possible god that I allow for exists within the constraints of the natural universe, while the possible god that you allow for is firmly outside the natural universe. Two completely different concepts.

I think you are attempting to re-define terms to suit.

God by definition cannot be constrained or exist within a boundary. To say that God can exist within a natural boundary is absurd. As you are arguing that God is a part of a larger structure. That it is subject to 'natural' law and thus is not omnipotent.

 

[Rabbie]

I think you are attempting to re-define terms to suit.

God by definition cannot be constrained or exist within a boundary. To say that God can exist within a natural boundary is absurd. As you are arguing that God is a part of a larger structure. That it is subject to 'natural' law and thus is not omnipotent.

I would agree with the absurdity of putting restraints on God or gods. What I find even more bizarre is the concept that an All-loving All-powerful Deity would allow so many innocents to suffer as they so clearly do. Even if these people have committed some sin the punishment appears grossly disproportionate so I cannot acccept this as justice

 

[dan-cat]

I would agree with the absurdity of putting restraints on God or gods. What I find even more bizarre is the concept that an All-loving All-powerful Deity would allow so many innocents to suffer as they so clearly do. Even if these people have committed some sin the punishment appears grossly disproportionate so I cannot acccept this as justice

This leads in to the debate of free will.

What were you referring to as injustice exactly?

Eternal damnation?

 

[Mike375]

I would agree with the absurdity of putting restraints on God or gods. What I find even more bizarre is the concept that an All-loving All-powerful Deity would allow so many innocents to suffer as they so clearly do. Even if these people have committed some sin the punishment appears grossly disproportionate so I cannot acccept this as justice

But how can you even hope to understand the actions of an all knowing all powerful god.

Another possibility is a supernatural kicked started things and then lets nature take its course and we don't even register on the radar. Perhaps this supernatural has other pets that are way way above us.

Have you ever considered the idea of a range of supernaturals that vary in power and the god portrayed in the Bible is only a local branch manager.

 

[Rabbie]

But how can you even hope to understand the actions of an all knowing all powerful god.

Another possibility is a supernatural kicked started things and then lets nature take its course and we don't even register on the radar. Perhaps this supernatural has other pets that are way way above us.

Have you ever considered the idea of a range of supernaturals that vary in power and the god portrayed in the Bible is only a local branch manager.

Because he states he is all-loving I can assess his actions in that context. The god in the bible(using your capitalisation since you made an issue of other posters using capitals incorrectly) claims to be all-powerful and all-loving and if he existed would not like to thought of as a local branch manager. I am sure that description will not please the Christians in this debate.

 

[Mike375]

Because he states he is all-loving I can assess his actions in that context. The god in the bible(using your capitalisation since you made an issue of other posters using capitals incorrectly) claims to be all-powerful and all-loving and if he existed would not like to thought of as a local branch manager. I am sure that description will not please the Christians in this debate.

It is correct to say "the god in the Bible". The word God determines which god you are talking about as does "the god in the Bible".

A parent is all loving but lots of times the child would not think that was the case If you required major medical treatment and that treatment was completely different to what you would have expected, would you then say it is all strange because none of the medical specialists agree with you.

Young children think their father is all knowing and all powerful. If Genesis is basically correct it might be referring to the Solar system. In fact the Bible does not portray a god that is all knowing and all powerful. He needs temptations to test, floods and other devices that suggest He is not all powerful. He needs parables.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Have you ever considered the idea of a range of supernaturals that vary in power and the god portrayed in the Bible is only a local branch manager.

You mean Greco/Roman style.

Brian

 

[Rich]

That must be the most arrogant statement I have read since, well, reading a Tony Bliar speach.

Brian

Don't compare me to that twat Brian, I knew the war in Iraq was based on a lie long before that idiot tried to convince the country of it's merit based on yet another lie and in any case Mick basis his arguments on one book, I repeat "mine are based on many" and since he is convinced that he is correct and I'm not, it was a perfectly valid comment for me to make

 

[Brianwarnock]

I thought alluding to Bliar would get a response, but surely you can see that

the correct conclusion

is a bit arrogant, a considered conclusion , fine, but you are dismissing anybody that doesn't concur with you out of hand, that's not the British way.

Brian

 

[Rich]

but you are dismissing anybody that doesn't concur with you out of hand, that's not the British way.

Brian

No, only Mick

 

[Rabbie]

Young children think their father is all knowing and all powerful.

True

If Genesis is basically correct it might be referring to the Solar system.

A very big IF for me. Genesis makes it clear that it is not just solar system - it is the universe

In fact the Bible does not portray a god that is all knowing and all powerful. He needs temptations to test, floods and other devices that suggest He is not all powerful. He needs parables.

Someone that can create the whole universe suggests someone pretty powerful to me. Someone who can produces Noah's flood and clear up all the water afterwards doesn't seem to be struggling. The odd resurrection seems quite powerful too. I was told the parables were to explain things to us because of our limitations not because God was struggling.

I feel an all-loving god would listen to the prayers of parents whose children have gone missing and return them. But since this doesn't happen I must draw my own conclusions

 

[Mike375]

Rabbie,

I can't see why Genesis must be the universe.

001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon
the face of the waters.

001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the
light from the darkness.

001:005 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called
Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

001:006 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the
waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.