Attack on Israel (9 Viewers)

[Isaac]

Guilt by the fact that the people of Gaza ELECTED Hamas to govern them. I don't think it works by parties in that part of the world, but if there WAS a political party of Hamas, the Gazans voted for it.

I concede that point, they made an awful choice, it's been quite a few years now, and I'm sure they regret it at this point

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I'm not sure that fanatics can feel regret over their choices until those choice blow up in their face. Because Islam doesn't acknowledge the concept of redemption (from Jesus), their belief is that the only way to heaven is some act to kill infidels. If they are fanatics, they will perform all sorts of atrocities in hopes of earning their way into heaven.

 

[Steve R.]

... and I'm sure they regret it at this point

If those in Gaza have any regret, they have the option of releasing the hostages and surrendering. Another manifestation of regret would be demands by the residents of Gaza that Hamas end their genocide against Israel and their suicidal quest for martyrdom.

 

[amorosik]

... they have the option ...

It's not clear what options he has

 

[Cotswold]

Has Hamas ever asked for an end to this conflict? Or even a ceasefire?

 

[Steve R.]

It's not clear what options he has

Manipulative propaganda. Hamas does not care about the suffering of children. Hamas can end the humanitarian suffering by releasing the hostages, disarming, and surrendering. Hamas started this conflict, they had the option not to attack.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I grieve for the child, but the way to help him long-term is to end Hamas, not to end the fighting. More precisely, ending Hamas WILL end the fighting and thus allow peace in the region. All a cease-fire would do would be to allow Hamas to re-arm and start another generation of the fighting when they have trained the next generation of "soldiers" ready to be martyrs for their cause.

 

[amorosik]

The Israeli government is expanding its borders and stealing other people's territories, that's its goal
By the way it acts, it has no interest in the lives of the hostages

Taking human lives is an inhumane act
No man can claim the right to kill another human being
At least as long as he wants to consider himself a full-fledged man/woman

Then there are murderers, but they're something else
And what the Israeli government is doing at this moment in history is behaving like a murderer
Unfortunately for the Jewish people, these massacres will remain indelibly imprinted in the history and souls of those who considered themselves, before them, the chosen people.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I would guess they have had enough of that war and will focus on the war to eliminate Hamas.

Which entails the killing of the Palestinians because even though Israel will give warning, Hamas keeps the residents (I won't call them civilians either) close at gunpoint so they can't win either. They take the sure bullet from Hamas or the potential bullet from Israel. That is what the antisemites are supporting. When you rail against the evil Israel for killing "civilians" - THAT is what you are supporting. Hamas wins everyone else loses. The UN is useless in this conflict due to their rabid antisemitism. Of course, it seems that they hate the Ukrainians also given all the help they've been in that conflict. Why are we still in the UN?

 

[Pat Hartman]

The Israeli government is expanding its borders and stealing other people's territories,

Sounds like you get all your news from Al Jazeera. So, If Mexico invaded us and we drove them back, we would have to give back all the territory we took on the rebound? There goes most of the southwest and Texas. I'd be quite happy to return California. It is damaged

Israel does NOT have to give back any territory they took in previous wars. The attacker loses in that case.

And what the Israeli government is doing at this moment in history is behaving like a murderer

So the Jews should just lie down and die as Hamas lobs rockets at their schools and playgrounds attempting to kill their children? Your antisemitism is showing. Why is it that in your mind only Jews are not allowed to fight back. I guess the Ukrainians should lie down and let Russia take the whole country. In your world, the aggressors always win.

"those who considered themselves the chosen people". That's your antisemitism showing.

 

[Steve R.]

The Israeli government is expanding its borders and stealing other people's territories, that's its goal

The Jews are the ingenious people since they have been there for thousands of years.

Taking human lives is an inhumane act

Seems that you should be directing your anger at Hamas. They started it by attacking Israel and killing over 1,200 people.
Hamas also turned Gaza into an armed camp dedicated to attacking Israel and killing Jews. Hamas is committing inhumane acts. Israel is defending itself.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I concede that point, they made an awful choice, it's been quite a few years now, and I'm sure they regret it at this point

None of them regret it. If they did, they would provide Israel the intel they need to extract the hostages and get rid of Hamas.

Seems that you should be directing your anger at Hamas. They started it by attacking Israel and killing over 1,200 people.

No. Hamas has been bombing Israeli civilians for 15 years or more. Oct 7th was just their ultimate act of evil and the civilians participated in the carnage also. So, I agree, they can be considered combatants in this conflict.

Hamas steals all the aid and sells it to their own people or on the black market to raise more money for bombs.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Taking human lives is an inhumane act
No man can claim the right to kill another human being
At least as long as he wants to consider himself a full-fledged man/woman

False statement. The REALITY is that if you see a person aiming a gun at you or approach with a knife held in a threatening position, particularly if the person is screaming threats at you, you have EVERY RIGHT to do unto others BEFORE they do unto you.

The reason is that the decision to shoot or not shoot is NOT a two-pass algorithm. If you guess that the person really doesn't mean to shoot you and you guessed wrong by doing nothing, you are either wounded or dead. I will claim the right to kill another human being when it is due to an act of self-defense. When my life is on the line, I do NOT turn the other cheek if at all possible.

Israel in the past has agreed to several two-state solutions but those treaties were abrogated by the Arab side of the treaties. Every time. At the moment, Hamas wants a one-state solution, that state NOT being Israel. They have avowed that they will eliminate Jews in their own home state. I'm sorry (actually, no I'm NOT sorry) but that is a clear-cut, national level self-defense exception to your categorically incorrect statement.

The Israeli government is expanding its borders and stealing other people's territories

Well, darn. The last time they ceded territory, Hamas used it to stage terrorist attacks. Maybe they want to try something else because what they tried last time didn't work. They are aware of the practical definition of futility: Trying the same action several times without changing your method in hope of getting a better result. In their attempts at appeasement, they are experienced: They recognize their mistake when they make it again.

 

[Isaac]

If they did, they would provide Israel the intel they need to extract the hostages and get rid of Hamas.

How do you know that no palestinians ARE working with israel to pinpoint Hamas locations? I would actually guess that there are, most likely.

 

[Isaac]

By the way it acts, it has no interest in the lives of the hostages

I agree with that - Netanyahu has no interest in getting the hostages back IMO, he wants to destroy Gaza #1. If he gets a hostage back fine, but that's not his primary goal. Others in Israel? Not sure, maybe they're different. If he wanted hostages back, his negotiating posture would be massively different.

 

[Isaac]

Taking human lives is an inhumane act
No man can claim the right to kill another human being
At least as long as he wants to consider himself a full-fledged man/woman

Not sure about this. Maybe not the right, but the necessity at times. Wouldn't you kill to defend your family, if you have one? Most normal people would, Right or not. Except @ColinEssex of course, he claims he would never shoot someone even if he was facing a Home Invasion, he'd just sit there and try to reason with a surely-good-teen-caught-up-with-the-wrong-crowd

 

[Pat Hartman]

How do you know that no palestinians ARE working with israel to pinpoint Hamas locations? I would actually guess that there are, most likely.

Because Israel would have acted on the information to extract the hostages. Above all else, they want the hostages back - dead or alive.

 

[Isaac]

Because Israel would have acted on the information to extract the hostages. Above all else, they want the hostages back - dead or alive.

My guess is extremely few people (maybe <20) know where the hostages are. It's not like any average Palestinian joe is holding on to this information of course.
But I would hazard a guess that surely there are some Palestinians working with Israel to target Hamas. That's probably where they get 90% of their intel from. Although their intel is pretty poor, as they generally end up bombing apartment complexes and schools.

 

[Pat Hartman]

as they generally end up bombing apartment complexes and schools.

Duh! OF COURSE they end up bombing apartment complexes and schools. YOU work it out!

 

[ColinEssex]

Except @ColinEssex of course, he claims he would never shoot someone even if he was facing a Home Invasion,

I never said that. Please try to quote correctly. I said I would never kill someone. I'm sure it's easy to shoot someone (for example) in the leg so they can be apprehended by the relevant law enforcement officers.
Whereas the Americans here would quite happily kill someone, just like they shoot deer or bears for fun.
Col