David Eagar
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Australian 'bludgers'
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wiklendt
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i keep a spreadsheet (yes, yes, it should be an access database - call me lazy) of all my hours. it tracks how much 'overtime' i have, and i balance that out on other days by either leaving early or arriving late. at the moment, i have 1.5 days owing to me, so i'll probably leave work early today 
Working day with 8 hours is nonsense. Fifty years ago, when there was no
PC, no robots, no mashinery was 8 hour day, and now is the same. Where is difference in money as a result of soaring productivity for all this years?
I am afraid in pockets of small groups of capitalists. 6 hours work day is
reality for today. And benefit of this should be more less unemploied.
PC, no robots, no mashinery was 8 hour day, and now is the same. Where is difference in money as a result of soaring productivity for all this years?
I am afraid in pockets of small groups of capitalists. 6 hours work day is
reality for today. And benefit of this should be more less unemploied.
wiklendt
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you're not thinking about the *changes* that have happened to keep the 8 hour working day a constant.
in my field of work - 50 years ago you didn't have genetic techniques with massive DNA sequencing data to sift through - the volumes and sometimes the complexity means it's impossible to do manually within any reasonable amount of time. PC are required for this, but to use the PC to do what you want to do with the DNA data takes time. less time than manually, but much much more data than 50 years ago, so it evens out, or even takes over.
in my field of work - 50 years ago you didn't have genetic techniques with massive DNA sequencing data to sift through - the volumes and sometimes the complexity means it's impossible to do manually within any reasonable amount of time. PC are required for this, but to use the PC to do what you want to do with the DNA data takes time. less time than manually, but much much more data than 50 years ago, so it evens out, or even takes over.
wiklendt
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my position's normal for me! ;P and thousands of other scientists in sydney alone.
but if you think about your "average" (ho hum) office worker (which is what i assume you mean, since you didn't really say, you just assumed, i suppose because YOU are an office worker?) - things would have changed there too: more companies to collaborate with or business expansions or more staff, new OH&S regulations and management, more complex pay schemes, superannuation, fringe benefits.
besides, i don't think that even half the population is an "office" worker. there are cleaners, builders, technicians, pest controllers, company reps, manufacturers/factories, farmers... etc. i would have thought that 'office' workers were just as 'minority' as everyone else
50 years ago you got paid $20/hr and that was it. no-one had to worry about worker's compensation, ergonimics, breaks from the computer every 30 min... etc etc
now there's a lot more loose ends to tie, a lot more regulatory bodies to report to - in essence, there's a lot more to do. computers allow us to keep the working hours down to 8 hrs (or 9.5 hrs, if you're part of the group from the article in the first post) a day.
Fifty years ago where was some fold peoples less in the world than today. And enyone who wants to work found job. Today is not the case. In thw world, not Australia. If You should look at the structure of workers no scients, no office workers
are in majority, but thise are production and service stuff. I stay on position that for
most, mabe 80% of jobs is optimal working time 6 hours today.
are in majority, but thise are production and service stuff. I stay on position that for
most, mabe 80% of jobs is optimal working time 6 hours today.
Fifty2One
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None of us in our group work any extra hours unless there is an unusual circumstance which would call for us to work extra.
We had a couple of people cut from our team before for working unauthorized overtime, they also made a log sheet of all the extra hours worked and then tried to use them to get some time off. They were cut because they were hired to do their tasks in a given amount of time and were obviously underperforming as evidenced by their own "time sheet".
We had a couple of people cut from our team before for working unauthorized overtime, they also made a log sheet of all the extra hours worked and then tried to use them to get some time off. They were cut because they were hired to do their tasks in a given amount of time and were obviously underperforming as evidenced by their own "time sheet".
David Eagar
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My interest in this concept was sparked by thinking back when I was working, after a 12 hour Saturday and an 18 hour Sunday, by Tuesday lunchtime I had racked up my mythical 40 hour week - and no, I was not being payed overtime for it and worked the rest of the week (10-12 hours a day)
Why I'm not working now is this sort of behaviour led to a complete breakdown, if I was more diligent in just working my 40 hours, I would be much healthier now
Why I'm not working now is this sort of behaviour led to a complete breakdown, if I was more diligent in just working my 40 hours, I would be much healthier now
Just because you shift around worktimes IMHO dont mean your 'incompetent' / are underperforming.
Offcourse if you simply cannot get the job done in the allowed time, that is another matter... Still that can depend on the source of "overrun", other projects/priorities may have gotten in the way?
No way is a 1:1 between working non-allowed overtime: underperfoming
Also some employers just expect you to, not to long ago I was expected to not declare any overtime and/or shift hours around... 9-17 thats it... be in by 9 leave a 17. Offcourse some manager would come 16:55 with a job for an hour, if I could finish that before going home and that he does realize I would shift the extra time to Friday... Then Friday lunch time, I leave... But that is not allowed, so I worked to 17.
Next monday again some problem pops up and I leave at 17, next day all hell in the office "why didnt you finish my request"?
Flexibility is a 2 way street! Companies/managers expect the world for a penny. They expect commitment and loyalty but in return give nothing
A dutch proverb say: Veel beloven weinig geven doet een gek in vreugde leven
Roughly translated: Promissing a lot, doint nothing makes a crazy man happy (Crazy man = Managers
)
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Fifty2One
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There are many jobs that are time line dependent and if you do not get the work performed within the deadline you are underperforming.
Some work is very time dependent - remember this when you bring your vehicle for a 4 hour job to the garage and the mechanic does an hour on Monday, 2.5 hours on Wednesday and finishes off the job at 23:30 on Thursady... and Friday you can not get your vehicle back because the mechanic closed up shop because of all the 'overtime' worked during the week...
According to our current SLA an unplanned single hour job arriving 5 minutes before leaving time would either be 5 minutes job that day and 55 minutes job the following day or mimimum 4 hours overtime at 150% pay. The employer has the option of what tasks they want to be performed for the remaining 3 hours of the 4 hour minimum or just pay out.
Some work is very time dependent - remember this when you bring your vehicle for a 4 hour job to the garage and the mechanic does an hour on Monday, 2.5 hours on Wednesday and finishes off the job at 23:30 on Thursady... and Friday you can not get your vehicle back because the mechanic closed up shop because of all the 'overtime' worked during the week...
According to our current SLA an unplanned single hour job arriving 5 minutes before leaving time would either be 5 minutes job that day and 55 minutes job the following day or mimimum 4 hours overtime at 150% pay. The employer has the option of what tasks they want to be performed for the remaining 3 hours of the 4 hour minimum or just pay out.
Just because you shift around worktimes IMHO dont mean your 'incompetent' / are underperforming.
Offcourse if you simply cannot get the job done in the allowed time, that is another matter... Still that can depend on the source of "overrun", other projects/priorities may have gotten in the way?
No way is a 1:1 between working non-allowed overtime: underperfoming
Also some employers just expect you to, not to long ago I was expected to not declare any overtime and/or shift hours around... 9-17 thats it... be in by 9 leave a 17. Offcourse some manager would come 16:55 with a job for an hour, if I could finish that before going home and that he does realize I would shift the extra time to Friday... Then Friday lunch time, I leave... But that is not allowed, so I worked to 17.
Next monday again some problem pops up and I leave at 17, next day all hell in the office "why didnt you finish my request"?
Flexibility is a 2 way street! Companies/managers expect the world for a penny. They expect commitment and loyalty but in return give nothing
A dutch proverb say: Veel beloven weinig geven doet een gek in vreugde leven
Roughly translated: Promissing a lot, doint nothing makes a crazy man happy (Crazy man = Managers
While this is true, I then do not/cannot expect the same mechanic to fix my headlights "in between" cause it is only a 15 minute job...
Cause the next person will want their rear view mirror replaced for another 15 minutes... and the next look at the license plate for another 15 etc...
By the end of the day the mechanic will be out an hour (assuming 4 such interuptions).
If work is time dependend time spend has to be plotted for and no interruptions taken place, for this will run amock with your schedule.
