Can't have the DB open twice at the sametime (1 Viewer)

[Joe8915]

For some reason I can't have the DB open twice at the same time. I had no problem a few weeks ago. What I would do is work in one screen and then on the other monitor I would do some updates in another screen.

I am on a network with the access being the front end and SQL as the backend.

Any Ideas?

 

[Kryst51]

Have you split the db?

 

[mrrcomp]

Hi

You need to be sure that when you open the db in Access that you don't "open as exclusive"

Close Access and reopen be sure that after you pick your mdb file on the right the option is "open" only

Hope this helps

Meir

 

[Joe8915]

Kryst, yes the DB is split.

mrrcomp, not saying that you are wrong but I never had to change the options before. I always had it check as "open as exclusive".

 

[mrrcomp]

if the mdb front end is exclusive open on your comp then certain options won't be able to be done from both locations.

Is the problem you have right on the open of the db or when attempting to read / write data

Meir

 

[Joe8915]

mrrcomp:


First of all thanks for the quick reply.

Its, right on the open of the db. I just wonder what happen, I never had to change any rights on the DB before.

 

[mrrcomp]

Hi
Did changing to regular open solve the problem?

Regards
Meir

 

[Joe8915]

mrrcomp:

I have not yet, changed the options. With me being the adminstrator, will I have any problems changing the options and then changing it back?

With the migration with SQL, I am so gun shy of doing anything. Always checking my dotting of the i's and the crossing of the t's.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The catch isn't what you do in the first instantiation of the database. It is what you do in the second instantiation.

The first instantiation is Open Exclusive. You've got full rights. The SECOND instantiation is Open Read-Only. You can browse and open existing features, but cannot modify them. You would never know this to be the case unless you got confused over which one was the first open and which one was the second open.

You must also remember, you have only ONE database. It is the shared file. But you have TWO instantiations. And the REAL work can only be done in an instantiation, because the only place work gets done is in the Access Workspace. That is what is created by opening the database. The database linkages and structural data in the workspace are the embodiment of the instantiation - not of the DB.

Mechanically, because these two "Open" events have different process IDs, they show up differently in the .LDB file even though you are the same user. The rule, and it has ALWAYS been hard and fast for this, is that once a DB is Open Exclusive, all other instantiations are Read-Only.

The session that is Open Exclusive can do anything, edit anything, update anything. But because of the exclusive locks in the .LDB file, all other sessions must wait for the Open Exclusive session to relinquish the locks. It has been that way since Access 2.0 and has never changed. Nor, in my not-so-humble opinion, should it. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to share the DB with anyone else. It would be unsafe to do so.

Therefore, when you claim that something changed regarding this behavior, I tend to think that you merely confused yourself. I don't think any of this has changed at all. No disrespect intended, but this makes no sense unless there is a totally unrelated thing going on that you have not described yet.

 

[Joe8915]

Doc Man, great post thanks. The only thing that I have done different is added a Module for tracking and the migration to SQL. With that being said, I am almost sure that I could open the database twice on the Network drive. I could not open it twice on my local drive. I will say they (IT) team has done some security updates since then.

But thanks to all for the responses. I guess I will settle not being able to have the db open twice.

Trying to think is there any way I can review two screens of the db at the same time

 

[boblarson]

If you want it open twice, just make a separate copy of the frontend. Then you can.

 

[Joe8915]

Hey Bob you are back, great and welcome.

I tried that, it won't let me due to that the db has the security permissions set. (I think that is what it is anyway)

I get an error message that I don't have the necessary permissions.

 

[boblarson]

For a secured one you would need a separate shortcut referencing the mdw file but with the other frontend location.

 

[Joe8915]

Bob
I believe I already have that, if I understand you correct. I have one db in a folder with a short cut to that folder and another db in separate folder with a shortcut to that folder. Both folders reside on my C drive with the security file on a separate folder entirely.

 

[boblarson]

And by "shortcut to that folder" do you mean that the shortcut uses something like:

"c:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\Msaccess.exe" "\\srvr\fldr\MyDB.mdb" /wrkgrp "\\srvr\fldr2\Secure.mdw"

 

[Joe8915]

Well more something like this

Shortcut properties in the folder called “Production”
"C:\Documents and Settings\jd\Desktop\Wrk Database\Production\Dbprod.mdb" /WRKGRP "V:\Contracts\Security.mdw"


Shortcut properties in the folder called “Development”
"C:\Documents and Settings\jd\Desktop\Wrk Database\Development\DbDev.mdb" /WRKGRP "V:\Contracts\Security.mdw"

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Wait, something you said in passing clarifies this (a little... maybe......)

Windows security works like this:

When you open a file (not just an .MDB) locally, you go through all sorts of layers of permissions - because you technically must have rights on the .MDB and on the folder it is in - and on the parent folder... - and on THAT folder's parent, etc. etc. etc.

Security arbitration includes the inheritance of rights. A folder can inherit Access Control Entries (ACEs) from its parent's Access Control List (ACL). It is possible for an upper folder's ACL to deny access yet you would look at the folder where the file is located and not see it.

Now you add network security to the mix. There is domain-level security, explicit SHARE security, and a couple of other vagaries here. In theory, it is possible to have rights to one part of a split DB but not another part based on the files being in two different locations. The iconic path leading to the databases can make a difference since permissions can be inherited through accessing the icon.

Normally the rule is that access rights are additive but prioritized. Remember the rule about "attaboys" and how one "awshit" wipes them out? Well, with Windows security, the rule is that one DENY wipes out every ALLOW. Where is this going? Windows security is actually rather granular. There are at least 19 "permissions" associated with a file or folder. Thinks like "pass through" (needed for parent folders), "read" "write" "update" "delete" "create" etc etc.

I am not going to swear to this, but if you place a split FE/BE file such that they are under two different ACL cascade, the more restrictive one wins because of locking requirements. So when you say that you could open the DB twice, I still have to say NO if one was "exclusive" - but the icon might have been set up for non-exclusive opening. When you opened the icon twice from two different locations you could still get two different results if the ACLs in those two locations differ. And if you have two FEs in two locations and one BE in a single location, ALL THREE of the ACL cascades become operationally significant in rights arbitration.

I believe that the anomalous behavior POSSIBLY MAYBE COULD BE some variant due to the fact that if Access can't open the LDB in the way it wants, it opens it as though the database will always be Read Only. I wish I could be more definite on that, but it is complicated on a good day.

If your security people have been "dinking around" with your site security, you might ask if they reduced the rights allowed on some ACLs in the vicinity of the folders where you keep your FE and BE. That might be a productive question that would be specific enough to gain some insight.

(Gad, it's getting late for me. I'm starting to ramble. Sorry...)

 

[Joe8915]

Doc Man, great post and response. I am sitting here trying to think what has changed from a week ago to this week. The only thing I can come up with is, our IT team did some upgrades with window securities. I know I have full permissions on the folders, just because I can create or delete them.
But what I don’t understand is, that in the past I could not have open the db twice at the same time if I had it located on my local drive. Now on my Network drive is the ONLY drive to where I could open it twice at the same time.
Off the subject, I was watching the News last night, what a damn shame about that oil spill. That is going really going to put a damper on the shrimp fishing. In fact from what I understand it’s going to ruin the shrimp fishing entirely. I feel so sorry for you guys down there. I just hope the government can do something quick enough for you all.