Differences Between UK VAT & US Tax Systems And DB Design

Dreamweaver

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I'm building a number of systems that I'm trying to make compatible in the USA and UK I have sorted all The Date And Currency Formats so the system Can Now work Completely With Both.

But At present The Systems Designed To Work With The UK VAT System Would anybody be able to give me some guidance with what I would need to make the tax system Correct for the USA As Well As The UK.

Many thanks in advance

Mick
 
Mick, what kind of systems are we talking about?

Inventory/Stock control? Point-of-Sale? General Accounting? It is hard to answer when we don't know your direction.
 
Thanks The Doc Man The Main Use will be For My Time And Billing System Which can charge by the hour or Schedules or on completion.

This is the link to it's Topic:
http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=118740

I've Also included a Sample Invoice showing VAT this invoice is for a hourly charged project (Still Playing With it so close You're Eyes LOL)

Thanks

Mick
 

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P.s.
The system can and should also allow for sales IE If a developer builds a program for the general public this would/Could be added as a Product so when somebody pays for a program a Receipt can be sent via the invoicing\Payments system as the program works around an invoicing system that will allow for future expansion Act.

Thanks
 
Unfortunately, I won't be able to answer your question. The imposition of taxes in the US depends a lot on the product being sold and to who the product is being sold to. I hope that if you leave a description of what is being sold and how you expect it to be sold, that someone who has a better understanding of this can respond.

Taxes, (in short) are normally collected at the point of retail sale (checkout stand). The tax charged on a product is the sum of Federal, State, County, and City sale taxe rates. Please note, that not all the taxes may apply when a product is sold/bought. If I buy tires, for example, there is a Federal tax. However, if I buy an iPod, there is no Federal tax. Some products such as milk, are not taxed at all. To make matters worse, a product taxed in one state may not be taxed in another state.

Addtionally, certain sales transactions are exempt from taxation. I can't go into detail here, since this is beyond my level of expertise.

PS: I see that others responded while I was writing.
 
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Thanks ortaias;

Ref: Federal, State, County, and City sale tax rates

Would this mean that Different States Have Different Taxes for different Items If so maybe I should add a table where the user can select (if They have the system Set for USA) Either The Total Tax To Apply across the Invoice total Or Use A List tied into the Invoice details.

Is this the sort of solution that would be used to handle the differences.

Thanks

Mick
 
Dreamweaver said:
Would this mean that Different States Have Different Taxes for different Items

In a previous life I was the supervisor of the state & local tax department for a big gaming equipment manufacturer. Your question is a gross understatement. The US equivalent of VAT is the sales tax. There is no national sales tax, but most states have them. In many/most of them, the tax rate will vary according to the city/county you sell in, and as noted different states will tax or exempt different things. Doc Man's state was one of the worst I dealt with, since for one sale I could end up filing 3 tax returns: state, parish (county) and city.

You could make a career out of coding a solution, since it changes constantly. You may not need to worry about it anyway, since in general you are not liable to collect the tax if you have no physical presence in the state.
 
Just a question, how did you sort the date & currency??

Dan
 
Thanks pbaldy,

Think I glade to be in the UK's simple VAT system Maybe just a caption name change on the reports and invoicing form so the user just adds the amount of tax if any to cover the Invoice.

Mick
 
Yes. Each state, county, and city has it's own tax rate and the same product can be taxed at different rates.

There may be an "easy" out to this taxation issue barring Murphy's Law. If one buys a product over the internet or by phone from a retailer in New York (for example) who does not have a (brick and mortar) store in North Carolina, the purchaser would not have pay the sales tax at the time of sale. However, some states now require that the sales tax in this situation be payed at the time the purchaser files his/her income tax forms. Applying this concept may allow you to sell the product without the obligation of collecting a sales tax. However, I am NOT an expert so don't assume that it can be done.:D

Also, I don't know if there would be any taxing (tariff) implications resulting from your product being exported from the UK into the US.
 
dan1dyoung said:
Just a question, how did you sort the date & currency??

Dan

First I found that the Tables Needed changing With Ref To The Currency Data Type, if it had a table format Of Currency Then all Forms when compacting changed "Currency" To Say "£#,##0.00;£#,##0.00" so I changed the currency data types Formats to Standard which seems to stop the changing but I didn't trust it so I hard coded a global

with the 3 formats I needed (NOTE The date formats for Date\Time can be left at both the table and forms level) Except where you create custom formats which I do on forms and in code All Currency fields now get there format on open from the global Currency format and custom dates from one of the 2 date formats.

Code:
Private Sub CboFormats_AfterUpdate()
If Me![CboFormats] = "UK" Then
    Me![CurrencyFormat] = "£#,##0.00;£#,##0.00"
    Me![DateFormat] = "dd/mm/yy"
    Me![DateFormatExtra] = "dd/mm/yyyy"
Else
    Me![CurrencyFormat] = "$#,##0.00;$#,##0.00"
    Me![DateFormat] = "mm/dd/yy"
    Me![DateFormatExtra] = "mm/dd/yyyy"
End If
    StrFormat = Me![CurrencyFormat]
    StrDateFormat = Me![DateFormat]
    StrDateFormatExtra = Me![DateFormatExtra

Be warned it's one hell of a lot of work I was lucky in that the db I'm working on is only 60% complete as your not just updating forms but reports as well

Hope it helps.

Mick
 

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pbaldy is quite correct about Louisiana and its Byzantine tax system. We've tried for YEARS to get it fixed but the politicians don't want to do so. It is beyond the scope of this part of the forum to explain why.

The way I look at it, you would have to consider this aspect of the problem: First, taxes change from location to location. Second, they change from one date to another. Third, the actual NUMBER of taxes changes by location and time. To do your customers proper service, you must accumulate EACH TAX separately so that at the end of the month they can file a report showing just how much is paid in each category of tax. By the way, pbaldy, I think you are incorrect. Certain products have federal tariffs that count as a tax in Louisiana. So we can have four tax sources.

Anyway, to build this correctly, you would need a tax table that includes at least the following fields (I think...)

tblTaxRates
ProdCode, showing which type of product is liable to this kind of tax
WaiverCode, showing which type of waiver applies to this product
TaxCode, showing whether this is Fed, State, City, Parish/County, etc.
TaxRate, how much it costs
TaxStart, date at which this tax came into effect
TaxEnd, date at which this tax was superceded or became expired

The ProdCode would have to be part of your inventory of sellable items. For instance, Milk is not taxed but alcohol is taxed heavily.

The Waiver code occurs when you have special cases - for instance, when a senior citizen purchases certain items, a specific tax is waived or reduced. So this depends on the CUSTOMER as well as the product.

The code types define to whom the tax is owed. This is where YOUR customer will love you if you get it right because... you can produce a report showing the amount of taxes owed each entity. It will also enable you to produce break-out charts of how to distribute the amount of money collected.

The date codes are important for two reasons. First, since taxes change over time, you need to keep history records for tax rates as well as for prices, sales, etc. Second, technically you need to have a date as part of the tax rate table since it is not properly normalized otherwise. See, a record has to have all the keys it needs to be properly identified, and in this model, you have keys of product type, discount/waiver type, tax entity, and date range. The only non-key value in that whole bunch is the tax rate.
 
The_Doc_Man said:
pbaldy is quite correct about Louisiana and its Byzantine tax system. We've tried for YEARS to get it fixed but the politicians don't want to do so. It is beyond the scope of this part of the forum to explain why.

The way I look at it, you would have to consider this aspect of the problem: First, taxes change from location to location. Second, they change from one date to another. Third, the actual NUMBER of taxes changes by location and time. To do your customers proper service, you must accumulate EACH TAX separately so that at the end of the month they can file a report showing just how much is paid in each category of tax. By the way, pbaldy, I think you are incorrect. Certain products have federal tariffs that count as a tax in Louisiana. So we can have four tax sources.

Anyway, to build this correctly, you would need a tax table that includes at least the following fields (I think...)

tblTaxRates
ProdCode, showing which type of product is liable to this kind of tax
WaiverCode, showing which type of waiver applies to this product
TaxCode, showing whether this is Fed, State, City, Parish/County, etc.
TaxRate, how much it costs
TaxStart, date at which this tax came into effect
TaxEnd, date at which this tax was superseded or became expired

The ProdCode would have to be part of your inventory of sell-able items. For instance, Milk is not taxed but alcohol is taxed heavily.

The Waiver code occurs when you have special cases - for instance, when a senior citizen purchases certain items, a specific tax is waived or reduced. So this depends on the CUSTOMER as well as the product.

The code types define to whom the tax is owed. This is where YOUR customer will love you if you get it right because... you can produce a report showing the amount of taxes owed each entity. It will also enable you to produce break-out charts of how to distribute the amount of money collected.

The date codes are important for two reasons. First, since taxes change over time, you need to keep history records for tax rates as well as for prices, sales, etc. Second, technically you need to have a date as part of the tax rate table since it is not properly normalized otherwise. See, a record has to have all the keys it needs to be properly identified, and in this model, you have keys of product type, discount/waiver type, tax entity, and date range. The only non-key value in that whole bunch is the tax rate.


Thanks The_Doc_Man sorry couldn't answer sooner as been working.

This is really starting to interest me

TaxRate Would be a %?

Me Thinking Tables

tblTaxSources:
Fields:
ID
SourceName
??

tblWaiverCodes
Fields:
ID
WaiverCode
ReducedAmount (Would normally Be 0%?) Except where you said About OAP's
????

tblTaxCodes
ID
CodeName
??

tblTaxRates
As Your Table

Any thought as to Above more than welcome.

Also Think You said that taxes Can Be Applied to A Product depending on who's buying it IE From what State They Are From Act, So a many To many table may be needed there Between Products and TaxRates???

I would look at Building a defaults system withing the clients Record to help out entry as we know were a client if from so can setup a good protion of there taxes there.????

For what I'm working on at the min it deals with charging by the hour or On Quotations or maybe selling software which I would assume would always be taxable IE not like the UK system where you register if you think your company's earning will exceed £47,500 in a year or exceed X in a given Quarter then you pay the VAT Man what you collected from your customers for a given period.

Hope we can work a solution for this as intersects the hell out of me LOL

Many thanks for all your help

Mick
 
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The tax to be charged for a given item would certain depend on multiple variables. The invoice details should be able to supply (via JOIN to the product tables) the category code for each item. The invoice base record (header, if you prefer) should supply the date and customer information (so that you could determine discount codes or whatever). So multiple joins would be involved. Multiple linkages, too.
 
Thats what I was thinking As we would have too contants to automation IE The Client and Product Sold Hope ya get where I'm going with this LOL.

Mick
 

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