At the first point that you know you are going to enter records in the sub-form you must create the entry for the parent form. There is more to this comment than you might first realize, though. The trick is knowing that you are going to enter those records. SO... one possible suggestion is to not show the sub-form if on a new parent record, at least until the user does something to the parent that triggers creation of the record. Exactly how you approach this is up to you, but just remember... don't GIVE a user the chance to screw up by showing something that isn't ready for use.