Is Intelligent Design Scientific Theory?

[Kraj]

Is that why the commandment "thou shalt not kill" is now being re-classified as "thou shalt not murder"? and of course the fact that it was aimed at Jews is never mentioned

So are you saying God meant, "Jews: thou shalt not kill" or "Thou shalt not kill Jews"?

 

[Rich]

So are you saying God meant, "Jews: thou shalt not kill" or "Thou shalt not kill Jews"?

Well it can't be the latter because didn't god order their murder some 400yrs after they were supposed to have done someting wrong?

 

[Adeptus]

Well it can't be the latter because didn't god order their murder some 400yrs after they were supposed to have done someting wrong?

It's OK if he tells you to do it... just not if you decide to do it on your own

 

[Kraj]

It's OK if he tells you to do it... just not if you decide to do it on your own

Precisely.

 

[Rich]

And God has told me to attack American policies whenever and wherever I can

 

[Kraj]

That explains a lot, actually.

 

[KenHigg]

Precisely.

a. Old Testament
b. Link

 

[Adeptus]

And God has told me to attack American policies whenever and wherever I can

The Gospel according to Rich

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I guess my problem with modern religious extremists is that they too often tend to focus on something to the exclusion of other things that might just cause them to change their responses.

For instance, a man lying with a man is a sin and an abomination according to some Old Testament references. But Jesus said to turn the other cheek not seven times, but seventy times seven. Also suggested to not cast stones unless you are yourself pure. Which, with the concept of original sin, is impossible. So the homesexual haters are just hating for themselves and falsely saying "God made me do it." Do they remember that BOTH of those factors are part of the same Bible? No, they focus on the sin and never on the forgiveness. Even though Jesus, in His comments, CLEARLY expected sinners to sin again. (Else why turn your cheek so often?)

I guess in New Orleans, I'm too close with too many gay people to not accept them as ... well, ... PEOPLE. People who can feel hurt when struck or even when insulted; people who just want to live quietly with the person of their choice. People who the gay-bashing religious extremists can't let be. It is the extremists who give Christianity a bad name. And over what? Do they honestly think that when two homosexuals have sex... that one of them will get pregnant and in so doing, perpetuate the homosexual gene?

(For all who might mistake that, it should be taken as dripping with sarcasm to the point of puddling on the floor it is dripping so bad...)

 

[mamandeno]

Most 'Design' Is Not Intelligent, babel fish

Disclosure Statement: I am a marine biologist, I accept the theory of natural selection as an explanation for the phenomenon of evolution, I do not subscribe to any faith, but like most I have things I beleive in that are without logical support.

For example I am firmly convinced that when I go scuba diving for crayfish, I only find them when I am nearly out of air. No one accepts this theory except me (my wife thinks I am simply bad at catching them), but I still believe it!!

Anyway intelligent design: -

75% of species have gone extinct (most before man existed).

One day so will humans

So, I say: WHAT INTELLIGENT DESIGN? Show me the directed logical process that indicates the presence of a designer?


Several have made the point that intelligent design is an attempt to reconcile spiritual beleifs, with scientific understanding.

What I don't understand is why?

Spritual belief is an act of faith. Why substitute logic or theory for faith?

Anyway that's enough out of me for one day, best I get back to chasing those elusive but yummy crayfish.

This from The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams says it better than me: -

[Note: the bable fish is a (fictional) fish that if you stick it in your ear acts a translation device enbaling you to understand any spoken language. more detail on wikipedia]

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra [/pedestrian] crossing.

 

[Kraj]

What I don't understand is why?

Spritual belief is an act of faith. Why substitute logic or theory for faith?

The answer is fairly simple. Organized religion depends of faith; for a religion to survive, its members must accept everything significant the religion says as true. If people question some of that religion's beliefs, they might decide they don't believe some or all of them and potentially turn away from that religion. In brief, questioning hurts religion.

Now, Christianity in particular has a lot of beliefs that are illogical, inconsistent, etc. When people realize this, they begin to doubt the beliefs of the religion. Therefore, in order to combat the doubt, the religion's higher-ups need to come up with a logiclly satisfying answer of their own to the questions. That way, when the questions arise an answer is provided and everyone is happy.

 

[KenHigg]

...For example I am firmly convinced that when I go scuba diving for crayfish, I only find them when I am nearly out of air.

Then just go down with a little air instead of a full tank -

 

[Rich]

The Gospel according to Rich

Do you doubt the word of god?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

For example I am firmly convinced that when I go scuba diving for crayfish,

-- mamandeno

Ya know, maybe we aren't talking about the same thing here, but in South Louisiana, you don't need scuba tanks, just a big net. And, in migration season, maybe just a big snow shovel. Are we talking about what the French call ecrevisse and the Louisiana locals call "Crawdads" or "Crawfish" ??? Little things about the size of an adult's thumb in diameter, maybe two or three times that long, crustacean, looks like a midget lobster, tastes great when boiled in various pepper sauces? That kind of crawfish?

I've been in New Orleans East a couple of times when crawfish have actually migrated across the road in daytime after a hard rain passes and the water level is high on either side of Interstate 10. (Why does a crawfish cross the road....? No, that's too philosophical, let's not go there.)

If I had brought a snow shovel with me, I would have been able to fill a number 5 washtub in, like, 3 minutes or less. The smell was bad, though, because the 18-wheeler trucks were not slowing down for a "crawfish crossing." (Nor was a sign posted for same anyway.) The smell of decomposing road-kill crawfish was not pleasant after it had been in the sun a while. That didn't stop the live ones from still trying to cross. A few wrecks occurred due to crawfish slime "greasing" the roads. All in all, a most interesting sight.

 

[dan-cat]

It's OK if he tells you to do it... just not if you decide to do it on your own

This is known as the teleological suspension of the ethical.

 

[dan-cat]

Therefore, in order to combat the doubt, the religion's higher-ups need to come up with a logiclly satisfying answer of their own to the questions. That way, when the questions arise an answer is provided and everyone is happy.

Without adapting the original text of course

 

[CraigDolphin]

Ya know, maybe we aren't talking about the same thing here, but in South Louisiana, you don't need scuba tanks, just a big net. And, in migration season, maybe just a big snow shovel. Are we talking about what the French call ecrevisse and the Louisiana locals call "Crawdads" or "Crawfish" ??? Little things about the size of an adult's thumb in diameter, maybe two or three times that long, crustacean, looks like a midget lobster, tastes great when boiled in various pepper sauces? That kind of crawfish?

Nope...crayfish in the Kiwi vernacular are what you might call rock lobster....lookup Jasus edwardsii for a more specific example. Tasty beggars they are, though.

As for mamandeno's theory, having had similar experiences diving for the critters in Kaikoura, I think I could ascribe to that belief myself

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Thanks, Craig. With no disrespect to anyone's favorite dish, I'll pass on lobster in favor of a Cajun good time with plenty of beer, Cajun two-step dancing to a Zydeco band (totally different stye from the Texas two-step), "berled" crawfish, and short corn-cobs and small red potatoes "berled" in the same mix as the crawfish, often at the same time. With plenty of Zatarain's Crab Boil in the cookpot. Then top that off with a fresh pecan pie. Whooooooeee, dat's good yeah.

And of course, if you are REALLY throwing a big Fais-do-do, toss in a medium to large, freshly broiled cochon de lait - then make it into po-boy sandwiches on fresh French bread with a little mayonnaise and Tabasco sauce. Oh, man, I'm startin' to drool all over my keyboard.

 

[CraigDolphin]

Sound good...I'll bring roast lamb, some L&P, and a Pavlova, and we can have a cross-cultural gastronomic exchange

 

[Bodisathva]

Easy Doc, I'm getting hungry here.

Was down in N'awlins for the World's Fair in '84 and have been in love with the food since. Red beans and rice, jambalaya... I have the Zatarain's Crab Boil in the cupboard, right beside the Tabasco Anytime you have some leftovers, feel free to send 'em North.