is SQL Server a GUI

[chewy]

IS Microsoft SQL Server a GUI like Access is or is it something else? I have no experience with it or even ever seen it in use personally. Ive searched for how it works but dont get what Im looking for but Im sure all the smart people here can inform me of this. But basically is it like Access or what are the main differences? Thanks for any insight!

 

[FoFa]

SqlServer is an Enterprise level databse engine (pretty basic explaination). It is NOT like access, but it is like access. Access can be thought of it's baby brother. SqlServer is closer to Oracle and DB2 than Access, and is usually accessed via a program of some kind. It is not a development system like Access. It can support 10's to 1000's of users depending on how it is scaled, while acess tends to choke around 10 (give or take). Access however can be used as a front end (program) to SqlServer and works pretty good in that function. Sqlserver is accessed mostly using pure SQL, but as with anything else, there is a vast array of 3rd party tools to help accessing data on SqlServer.

 

[chewy]

how would you access this? Through Access, or how do most people use this?

 

[FoFa]

Usually through a program of some type. Data is usually accessed via SQL statements internal to what ever program is using it. Out SQLServers have VB, C, Java, ASP programs all accessing them. Inhouse programs are usually ASP or VB and can use Sqlserver or Oracle (yes, we use both here). We also use Access and Excel to get data from SqlServer on a limited bases. The newer versions of Access (2K and XP) can use SqlServer as it's native DB, but I have not done this as it seems to defeat the purpose of having a portable DB.

 

[chewy]

how would I test out Oracle to see how to do it or is unrelistic in a home user wanted to tinker with it?

 

[Len Boorman]

Just to add a small contribution.
My understanding is that there are really three elements involved with databases

A Data Base Management System (DBMS)
A Data Manipulation Language (DML)
A Data Definition Language (DDL)

To complicate matters SQL can act as a DML and/or DDL

Oracle is a DBMS that uses SQL or similar as DML and DDL

Access has JET as the DBMS and then (could be wrong here) uses SQL as DDL and/or DML but also VBA as a sort of DML

Setting up Oracle in the home for testing purposes seems "interesting". Have you seen the costs and minimum requirements.

HTH

Len B

 

[chewy]

i have a version of SQL Server but am not sure how to proceed with it.

 

[mission2java_78]

Chewy,

You may want to research a bit more on SQL Server...its not something where you can just slap on and start developing full blown apps. You have to deal with security issues, authentication, triggers, stored procedures, views, as well as many more things that creep up.

Basically right now you create an mdb and have full
access to tables, queries, forms, modules, etc. With SQL
server you're basically working with a back end tool
where you deal with tables, views, sproc's, security, etc...
everything but GUI. You then need a front end to physically
connect to a database. See with access you don't need
to provide any sort of connection string to access the database
you have the tables there for you. With SQL Server you
design a front end application which does a lot of talking
to your SQL Server back end. Your back end has to deal
with constant calls to re-open or close the db over and over.
SQL Server is no where near as easy as access. Usually
corporations will have full blown DB admins as well as db
developers working on your SQL Server...sometimes the
developers get shafted and end up being the admins as well..
lucky us.

I'm surprised you have a full blown copy of SQL Server..its
pretty expensive. In any event if you are working
for a company who uses SQL Server you can have your admin
install client and tools, this will give you access to the
enterprise manager (where you create tables, etc) as
well as some other neat db utility apps. You then have
your admin install BOL which is books online, basically
the SQL Server Bible.

Once this is all installed you need to think about how
are you going to deploy. Will this be ASP (internet) based
will this be client server (C++ / VB) etc. You can then
install whatever tools you will use to create your front end.
Once your ready start reading BOL and discovering how much
more work is involved with SQL Server rather than access.

Life...so simple yet so difficult.

Hope this helps a bit,
Jon

 

[chewy]

so all those tools let you develop how the tables are set up and would relate to each other. Then you have to develop a front end with another program? Which programs accomplish this?

 

[FoFa]

Actually SqlServer has Enteprise Manager (EM) which is a GUI tool for admin. on SqlServer. I usually use EM for mundane Admin. tasks. However when writing Views or Stored Procedures and Triggers I use Query Analyzer (QA) because it is easier. You can use Oracle on the desktop also, we do here, but Oracle is much more complicated to setup and run than SqlServer. If you want to learn SqlServer, what do want to learn? Admin. functionality is different than developers. Each is a job in itself. When you break out from the relm of things like MSAccess, you find it start getting a little more complicated. If you want to develop with SqlServer, than first is read up and learn it's security. Security causes more problems than anything else in SqlServer. And NEVER use the SA account (trust me, you'll thank me later). Next investigate views. Than triggers and stored procedures. At this point if you have a half way understanding of what you have done, you will be good to go.

 

[chewy]

sotheoritically I could install SQL Server and if I was to read up on it and actually figure it out I would be able to design a UI from SQL Server and wouldnt have to link it to another app?

 

[mission2java_78]

No,

You create the back end in SQL Server...and you create a front end in another tool

Jon

 

[chewy]

are these other tools included with SQL Server?

 

[BukHix]

Chewy unless you just want to view your data in pieces or in one table at a time you are going to want to front end it with something. Since you are already familiar with Access it would probably be your best choice.

You can do a lot of stuff to your data with EM but it is not real useful for data entry, manipulation or reporting.

are these other tools included with SQL Server?

Nope. Just use Access to get started.

 

[mission2java_78]

Maybe a suggestion,

Pick up VB6 since its familiar to VBA...and then try messing around with this and SQL Server. You learn by playing around with the tools.

Jon

 

[chewy]

so I can create an app in VB and then link those data stores in sql Server back end and the VB app is the front end?

 

[FoFa]

It might be easier to visualize if you think about MSAccess without FORMS, REPORTS, and (arguabbly) MACROS. Leaving Tables, Queries and a smaller subset of VBA.

 

[chewy]

Yes, that actually does help. You guys are such a wealth of information, If I could only know a fraction of the things you guys know I would be a genius. Keep up the good work. Maybe someday I will be able to help you with something

 

[Mile-O]

Maybe someday I will be able to help you with something

How about a cup of tea?

 

[mission2java_78]

Yes,
you create your table structures in SQL Server and then your GUI in vb. In vb then you simply connect to the database back end...usually the back end sits on some db server \\YourDBServer.
You will end up using ADO a lot more than DAO when doing this...connections and recordsets work a bit differently.

Jon