My U.K. Excursion

[The_Doc_Man]

CJ and I did our best to rid the FA of all their IPA

I'm going to presume IPA is drinkable, alcoholic, and probably on tap.

Once, about 15 years ago, a friend of mine told me about the United States Librarian's Association convention in New Orleans where they tried to drink the Marriott Hotel dry. He knew about it because his wife was on staff for the New Orleans Public Library as an Assistant Head Librarian. Apparently, the same group had succeeded in the previous year's convention in Detroit, but they were doomed to failure in New Orleans. Remember that the city's motto is "Laissez le bon temps roulez" - Let the good times roll! These folks pretty much had to be rolled up to their rooms. And LIBRARIANS! Sheesh, who would have thought it?

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I'm going to presume IPA is drinkable, alcoholic, and probably on tap.

IPA = Indian Pale Ale

I understand that beer shipped out to the colonists of the West Indies was rattled around in the ships' holds'. This caused a change in its constitution. The colonists grew to enjoy this change. When they returned to England they wanted this beer, so it was shipped back and called "Indian pale ale" IPA.

 

[isladogs]

Sorry to be a pedant but its 'India Pale Ale'
I need to get out more ....

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Sorry to be a pedant but its 'India Pale Ale'

Well I didn't expect that! I did expect someone to say I got the commas wrong, as I'm an instinctive punctuationer not an accurate punctuationer. My English teacher Mrs Patterson once said to me "you've spelt this wrong Hine". I replied "you can read it can't you?" That's my attitude to spelling and punctuation. Punctuation is not necessary, correct spelling is not necessary, only intelligence is required to work it out, or possibly a request for clarification!

 

[isladogs]

I said I was being a pedant.
You got the product history spot on though...

 

[Frothingslosh]

Poepel luv two yuse the (Yew can reed it, rite?) xceuse, butt spllenig and gramer eksist fore a reason. Faylyoor two yews itt maeks yew look upnrufessunel and inuntelilgent, and yer awdeyens mite toon u owt as a reesalt.



Yes, that's a pet peeve of mine because 'You can read it, can't you?' is really "I'm not interested in doing it right, so I've decided it's your problem now, instead."

That said, the peeve really is more about lousy spelling than missing a comma (although leaving out a comma can definitely drastically change the meaning of a sentence).

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

That said, the peeve really is more about lousy spelling than missing a comma (although leaving out a comma can definitely drastically change the meaning of a sentence).

But, there are no Commas and spelling in the spoken word... And we understand the spoken word... If I say:- whether and weather, you deduct my meaning from the context...

So if I write the whether is nice today, then you see the spelling mistake, but the meaning is not lost because the context is clear.

 

[isladogs]

But, there are no Commas and spelling in the spoken word

Pedant time again ...

commas

I really do need to get out more

 

[Frothingslosh]

But, there are no Commas and spelling in the spoken word...

Actually, that is completely incorrect. Commas specifically represent the short pauses we make when speaking, which in English we're accustomed to doing when saying certain clauses, listing things out, etc. All Punctuation Matters! (bah-dum-DUM)

As to spelling not mattering, I encourage you to submit a poorly-spelled resume to an employer or an poorly-spelled article for publication (even if it's just an opinion piece of the Op-Ed page) and see what response you get.

You may not like it, but people will judge you, your knowledge, and even your trustworthiness by your spelling and grammar. Poor spelling and/or grammar convey a lack of education whether that is the reality or not, and they often lead to the writer not being taken seriously or even dismissed or ignored.

Note, too, I'm really not talking about the occasional spelling or grammar error - everyone makes those from time to time. I'm really referring to the mindset of 'they don't matter as long as people can figure out what I mean', because that is as far from the truth as you can get.

I was going to post a link or two from people who are a lot more scholarly than I on the topic, but there are so MANY really good ones. Just do a search on 'Why spelling and grammar matter' or 'Why spelling and grammar are important' and you'll be buried in articles explaining why they're important and how people react when you ignore them.

Anyway, I really didn't intend to derail the UK Excursion thread; if this is to be continued, it really should be its own thread, either here in the Water Cooler or down in Debates.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Actually, that is completely incorrect. Commas specifically represent the short pauses we make when speaking...

Yes I know what commas represent, however the thing I was bringing to your attention was "context". So from your own example, someone makes a short pause while speaking, then you would assume a comma was required to convey the meaning that the person "intended". In other words, the person meant to pause for emphasis in their statement. However look at a real life situation... You are driving down the street and you are speaking to your passenger. Someone unexpectedly steps into the road and you pause. Now the pause has no meaning in the context of what you were saying. If what you were saying had been recorded and was later transcribed by a transcription service the transcriber would add a comma to show the pause, but this would be incorrect. The transcriber is not aware of the context.

 

[isladogs]

Back again...
Firstly I apologise for being a pedant!

Just for interest, I just ran frothy's comment using Microsoft text to speech.

Poepel luv two yuse the (Yew can reed it, rite?) xceuse, butt spllenig and gramer eksist fore a reason. Faylyoor two yews itt maeks yew look upnrufessunel and inuntelilgent, and yer awdeyens mite toon u owt as a reesalt.

It understood it though a couple of words sounded slightly odd!

Tony's sentence about the 'whether' was perfect

So if I write the whether is nice today, then you see the spelling mistake, but the meaning is not lost because the context is clear.

I've just knocked up a simple database to show the use of text to speech with these examples

NOTE: this uses a VBA reference to the Microsoft Speech Object Library

 

[Frothingslosh]

Tony, at no point did I say the meaning was lost, now did I?

I simply said that spelling and grammar are important because of what they convey about you, the person doing the writing and/or typing, a point which you have insisted on ignoring this entire discussion.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

spelling and grammar are important because of what they convey about you

Do you mean that you make a judgement about the person based on their ability to spell and ability to punctuate correctly?

If that's the case then you have a problem!

Some people just cannot spell and punctuate correctly. Other people have a first language which is not English, this affects their ability to spell and punctuate. They may well have attained a good education in their own language.

 

[Vassago]

Getting back on track...

I love IPAs. We definitely have our share of them in microbrews across the pond. I know they are more of an acquired taste because of all the bitterness, but I can't help myself but to choose them when I'm out and about with friends.

Cheers!

 

[NauticalGent]

See what you done did Colin...you sure your(did that on purpose) not from Essex??!?

 

[isladogs]

Yes I'm sorry about triggering the dispute

I didn't mean to be the catalyst (or cattle list) - honest guv ...

 

[Frothingslosh]

Do you mean that you make a judgement about the person based on their ability to spell and ability to punctuate correctly?

If that's the case then you have a problem!

Some people just cannot spell and punctuate correctly. Other people have a first language which is not English, this affects their ability to spell and punctuate. They may well have attained a good education in their own language.

I see, you still can't rebut the point, so instead you decide to attack me personally instead.

Fine, that's what I get for assuming you to be capable of an intelligent, rational discussion on this topic, but that is obviously far beyond your capabilities.

Sorry for the derail, guys.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

As far as beers, ales, lagers, stouts, and other potables, my feet are in the trough. I've never been much a beer drinker. The few that I have tried leave me with no particular pleasure. They ALL taste like "Old Horse Blanket" (i.e. filtered through a closely woven used horse blanket!) But then, I can't drink wine either. I taste the vinegar immediately and just can't enjoy it. Before anyone starts, ALL naturally fermented wines have a balance between sugar, alcohol, and acetic acid because there sort of a Gaussian distribution of just how far the fermentation process works. And for better or worse, I'm a hyper-taster, so I catch the extremes quickly. In college I would have mixed drinks now and then, but not that many.

Part of that aversion includes olfactory effects. I worked as a musician in a bar filled with the odors of cigarettes, beer, and (unfortunately) other odors of a completely repugnant nature. The odor of beer became associated with too many other odors, and yet back at that time, we still considered ourselves lucky to have that gig because our little band had not hit the big-time stages. So playing live music with a bunch of young, inexperienced (including ME) in an old New Orleans bar... it was welcome money that each of us needed for college expenses.

I didn't drink much - hardly at all - because I quickly became the "designated driver" to bring the guys back after a dance or party gig. So I never had the time to acquire the taste for sweet, bitter, salty, or any other beer varieties. I don't regret having done it and still fondly remember the guys of the band. But we've all moved on.

Every now and then at the bar that we played in most often, we would do a long shift. Long enough that the bar's front door would catch reflected light from the reflections of sunrise. To us, whether or not it was intended as such, that was the REAL meaning of the song House of the Rising Sun. I worked there and I can affirm it WAS the ruin of many a poor boy. And some poor girls, too!

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

"House of the Rising Sun"

I remember 4 of us sitting a Ford Escort, I was in the back with Andy who had his acoustic guitar. I think it was my Ford Escort, I wasn't driving, I can't remember who was... We had had a few, more than a few I reckon! Andy started playing "House of the Rising Sun" We all joined in, singing along. That was the best rendition of The House of the Rising Sun I have ever heard... Obviously my perception and judgement was coloured by the amount of alcohol consumed!

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

IPA = Indian Pale Ale

I understand that beer shipped out to the colonists of the West Indies was rattled around in the ships' holds'. This caused a change in its constitution. The colonists grew to enjoy this change. When they returned to England they wanted this beer, so it was shipped back and called "Indian pale ale" IPA.

To add to the pedantry - wasnt it shipped to India as the name would more suggest?