Now I know for a fact the Scientists have got this wrong .. (1 Viewer)

Uncle Gizmo

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I am worried.
We've got both Voyager 10 and Voyager 11 leaving the solar system.

When an advanced race discovers them, what will they find? Naked pictures that's what they will find! Pornography!

Our chances of joining the galactic council will be seriously damage, especially when they find out what we use our internet for!

However there is some hope, maybe the Firangi will discover the probes first.
 

Micron

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I find such conjecture sort of amusing. The chain of circumstances that took place which shaped life on earth as we know it are numerous, and if you remove just one, the whole thing can break down. OK, so assuming that these can be repeated elsewhere in the universe in one fashion or another, resulting in intelligent (and I use that word tongue in cheek) life, then by that link's assertion (and many others) you're talking tens of thousands of years for one-way communication. The chances that the sender and receiver have not yet annihilated themselves or have not been annihilated in some way are remote. Double that improbability for the chance that anyone will still be around to receive a reply.

Don't get me wrong; I believe in the possibility of other life in the universe, but think too much is expected from the idea, and to make such claims as in the title of that link is like saying the earth revolves around the sun. That theory and such conjectures as the one of this topic are based on our limited capacity to observe, and both assertions are equally sound. As soon as we invent the tools (e.g. as was in the case of the telescope disproving the earth being the center of the solar system) we're just having fun with numbers and ideas.
 

Isaac

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I was, but now I learned something of great value new today!
 

The_Doc_Man

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But in fact we later learn that Deep Thought wasn't such a perfect computer after all. First, the input and output queues had become out of sync so "42" wasn't the answer to "What is the meaning of life, the universe, and everything?" Instead it was the answer to the previous question "What is 7 times 8?" Which gives you a REALLY good feeling for the other things involving Deep Thought.
 

Uncle Gizmo

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Now it's time to get really serious... Through something that seems like a divine intervention we have arrived at intelligent life, although I understand there are some reservations about that statement.

Because so many things had to be just right for us to be where we are now, the atomic weight of hydrogen, and God knows what else, it seems to me like maybe we are the millionth iteration of a continuous process, the birth and death of the Universe, birth and death, birth and death, birth and death, millions of times, until we arrive at this universe where we happen to be intelligent.

That we could be in an iteration where we are the only intelligent species experience, and we die out, it's possible. But the iterations will continue, and eventually there will be an iteration where there are multiple intelligent species scattered throughout the universe.

If we happen to be in that iteration, then there is other intelligent life, if we're not in that iteration, then there is no other intelligent life.

So let's be positive about this, let's assume we are in a universe where there are other intelligent beings scattered throughout the universe. And again adopting the iterative process, let's assume that there is no way these races can communicate with each other unless there is is instantaneous communication, communication not governed by the speed of light.

Let's also assume that there are intelligence life forms out there that are more intelligent than humans, and that have been around longer than the human race.

All of these ideas are fanciful if we are the only iteration, but if there are multiple millions and billions of iterations of the Universe then what I am saying is going to be true somewhen, maybe now for instance.

So that means it is possible that somewhere in this universe an intelligent race has devised a means of instantaneous communication.

Why am I harping on about instant communication? What's the point? The point is whats the point of the Universe with intelligent life, life spread out through the universe, if it cannot communicate? it just doesn't make sense. It makes more sense that eventually an iteration will evolve where the intelligent life will be able to communicate throughout the universe.

So as I said earlier let's assume there's the Volans, who are millions of years in advance of us, and have instant communication. What is their goal with this instant communication? Well they want to communicate with other races of course, races spread out throughout the universe just the same as we do.

Protecting ourselves into the future, as we developed this instant communication. We know there are potentially other races out there, what would be our goal? Our goal would be to tell them how to develop instant communication technology for themselves

So what would you do? you would leave breadcrumbs littered throughout the universe, bread crumbs explaining how to develop this instant communication yourself.

It's like the Voyager satellite I mentioned earlier I understand it has some means whereby an alien culture could start off with simple basic logic and gradually build up through the logic the information provided on the Voyager to read and understand our language.

It follows that a sufficiently advanced race would provide the same thing for other races. A way for them to develop the technology to communicate instantaneously.

So that means out there in the universe there is a flashing star, or maybe a different coloured nebula, something staring us in the face which is the first key to the knowledge, the first step to deciphering the language and techniques of the advanced civilisation that wants to communicate with us.

Let's Describe the technology. We need something that can either communicate instantaneously, or can go back in time. We need to trigger a star or something capable of flash like a Beacon in an intelligent manner to attract the interest of intelligent life.

So we either need to go back in time and affect the development of a particular star so that it flashes in a particular rhythm, or we need some instantaneous power, like an instant laser that travels through space instantaneously and can make a star flash in a Morse code type way.

Now it's obvious that we can't do that, but a sufficiently intelligent race might be able to So we need to follow the breadcrumbs, what would they be? What would they look like? What would they say? Somebody should at least be looking for that!
 

Micron

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I think that some of your notions fell apart the moment you brought in flashing stars and lasers - both visual effects whose efficacy will be limited by the snail's pace of light. Interesting that you think the universe is repetitive. Since it is moving away from everything at a faster and faster pace would it not have to collapse in on itself in order to begin again? One thing seems certain - that man's time will be no greater than the point at which our galaxy and Andromeda collide. You and I won't have to worry about that.
 

Uncle Gizmo

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Interesting that you think the universe is repetitive.

I read somewhere years ago when I was but a boy, that everything has half-life. Now I've read more recently that that's not true, so I don't know. But from that idea, the idea that every piece of matter will turn into energy at the ending of the universe, I realised that one day there will no longer be any matter in the universe, it will all be energy. So I wondered, without any matter, there is no longer any velocity, there's no longer any speed there's no longer any distance. So it seems perfectly feasible to me in my teenage years that at that final moment when the last piece of matter turned into energy, then the universe would collapse to a point... Thereby starting another big bang!
 

Micron

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I've never heard of everything turning into energy at the end. Something has to happen in order to convert mass to energy so if you have anything you can point us to about that idea I'd like to read up on it.

A show hosted by Professor Brian Cox that I've seen (I watch all of his stuff; sometimes more than twice) postulated that at the end, the last star will burn out and the cycle (which is not complete in terms of turning 100% of one exploded star into other new objects in the cosmos) will end and there will be only darkness. Not to worry - we have a long wait - 1 followed by about 96 zeros. He also suggests the universe started and will end in what's known as the Big Rip. The farther apart things drift from each other, the less effect they have on nearby objects, and dark energy (or is it dark matter?) will fill the void.

If you saw the end of Men In Black where the alien was playing with universes as if they were marbles, that tells you all you need to know about how it all started and how it will end!
 

The_Doc_Man

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Depending on whose end-of-universe theories you follow, if the universe reaches the "entropy" death then it will be a more or less uniform, thin and cold gas cloud. Maybe slightly lumpy, with all the planets having been loosed from their stars because the stars dissipated.
 

Uncle Gizmo

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I don't know though, I think there's good grounds to assume that Donald Trump is an alien....
 

Micron

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Agree with that article wholeheartedly.
If you're right about DJT, then it does little to support the notion that alien life is intelligent.
 

Galaxiom

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One thing seems certain - that man's time will be no greater than the point at which our galaxy and Andromeda collide.
Least of Earth's problems. The distance between stars is so great that the collision between the Milky Way and Andromeda will be about them passing through each other then halting by gravity and merging. The probably of actual collisions, particularly on an outer spiral arm is very remote. There is a bigger risk of the Sun and its planets being ejected from the galaxy.

Either way, that event is still more than four billion years away. By then the Sun will be at the end of its life and swelling into a Red Giant if it hasn't already collapsed into a White Dwarf after engulfing Earth and charring it to a rocky crisp.

Long before then the Sun's power will have increased so much that all the water on Earth will have boiled away. This will happen within a billion years with life as we know it already long gone perhaps leaving only some kind of thermophile organisms if anything.

We would likely experience another large meteor impact on the scale of the C-T boundary Chixulub Event long before then if we don't manage to destroy ourselves even sooner.
 

Micron

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Umm, the sun running out of fuel is estimated to begin in 5 billion years, so if the two galaxies will collide in 4 billion years then my doomsday scenario trumps yours! Regardless of whether or not there are any direct planetary collisions, their orbits just have to change enough to affect the earth in a negative way. Even just the loss of our moon will begin the end of life on earth.
 

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