Shooting of little Rhys Jones!!

[scott-atkinson]

How can we combat this growing gun and knife culture that is ever growing within our culture?

A culture that has claimed the life of it's latest victim and innocent 11 year old boy who was in the wrong place at the wrong time!!

Parenting is an issue perhaps, better education another, what about tough sentencing from the courts, what about taking away the Human Rights of a person that commits a crime?

Be interesting to understand from our US cousins as to how if any they tackle this problem, as undoubtedly this issue is magnified ten fold in their land.

What do you think?

 

[ColinEssex]

Be interesting to understand from our US cousins as to how if any they tackle this problem,

They don't - fortunately it's still relatively rare in the UK, although there have been more over the last year or so.

In the USA, we're led to believe your lucky if you make it to the end of the road without being mugged / shot / knifed etc. Why else do many carry guns? or have them at home ready primed to kill.

Kids are taught pre-teens how to kill things with a gun in the USA.

Maybe the USA should learn the difference between the enemy and allies in the war zone - then maybe 3 of our lads wouldn't have been killed by the USA military last week.

Col

 

[Rabbie]

I think that Rhys' mother was correct when she said she blamed the parents of the killer. I also condemn the wall of silence by those who know the killer's identity and are not turning him in. Such a cowardly act should be punished severely. perhaps we should have large rewards for thos who hand in illegal weapons and extra payments for thos who supply information leading to the recovery of illegal weapons.

 

[Pauldohert]

Unfortunatley there is a tiny minority who go thru life thinking they can do whatever they want to do - and enjoy the intimidation of others and the power they possess.

Power has been taken away from teachers, from the community and the police. Its no surprise that the police don't bother to investigate burglaries - even if they catch someone they will get a warning and be out doing the same thing the very same night.

The government introduces more and more laws which aren't enforced - which in my mind is worse than not having the law in the first place.

All it does is confirm to those so inclined that - the law they can ignore and the teachers, the community and the police can't touch them.

Once they have this attitude - its too late. The killer should have been put back on the straight and narrow long ago - The scum bags, when they are caught will have a long history of getting away with all kinds of things and making life a misery for lots and lots of people. The police and community will no doubt not be surprised by who it is at all - but they have been powerless to stop them.

At this point the law will have the power and inclination to act - but its so obviuosly too late.

 

[GaryPanic]

My thoughts do go out to the parents...

- as to how to deal with the problem . thats is a diffuicult problem

a tougher stance on minor crimes - would hopefully steam the flow of more serious crimes -
for repeat offenders(young ones) how about turning one of the outer herbrides (typo) islands into a remand school -- and make it hard life

to get out of the school they would have to pass O'level exams (Or whatever the modern version is) this would hopefully give them a grounding in hard work and rewards , but also an alternative to crime

or alternatively for the less academic ( not eveyone is academic - how about job skill such as brickies - but do it in a 3rd world country - where they might see real hardship and come to value what the UK has to offer
- neither of these will work - co's of the free loading hippies and there human rights .

now that does not mean that I would have these guys hurt or anything, but it might break the cycle - if you have bad parents then the odds are your children will have bad values- and become bad members of society (I genralise here) - by trying to break this cycle one hopes this will happen less often

Judges need to have more flexibility in their ability to punish - so tey can be more creative -

Prison where intended to re-habilitate (typo) - but they don't - use prisions to lock criminals up and use alternaive methods to re-halbiliate the young offenders ..
I ramble

 

[Pauldohert]

A government tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime would help.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I also condemn the wall of silence by those who know the killer's identity and are not turning him in. Such a cowardly act should be punished severely. .

That's easy to say from the safety of your home, it is not too long ago that the police failed to protect the identity of an informant in the Manchester area and he paid the ultimate price for his citizenship.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

A government tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime would help.

They only worry about things that affect them, they are the ones that remove all the sanctions, and yes it is down to the parents but haven't the wet liberal elite made it difficult for parents to exercise control.
We need a strong right wing government.

Brian

 

[Rabbie]

A sad comment on our society nowadays but unfortunately true. Someone once said "For evil to triumph only needs that good men do nothing. There are times nowadays that I despair of our country and do not look forward to spending my retirement here.

 

[Rabbie]

One of the main problems now in the UK is the perennial shortage of money caused by the pressure on Governments of any party to keep taxes as low as possible, inefficiences in the bureaucracy and the obsession to pose as a world power. We finish up with inadequate funding to have sufficient police on the streets, insufficent funds to provide the proper equipment for our troops, and a poorly funded health service and education system. People need to wake up to the fact that services have to paid for and in a country with some of the best paid footballers it is a national disgrace that poverty is causing these problems.

 

[scott-atkinson]

co's of the free loading hippies and there human rights .

Gary,

I completely agree, I feel that the Human Rights Bill is rife for misinterpretation and is used as a loop hole when punishing criminals with tough sentences.

I think that it is time that the UK threw out this bill, or revised it to say that anybody who commits a crime has their human rights revoked.

Unfortunately this will never happen while this government lets the beaurocats in Brussels provide this bill to all ensendre.

This country has come to the point where the Human Rights of the perpetrator are put before their victim.

 

[GaryPanic]

I am one for Human Rights --
but we need to outline what those are

The right to live without fear.
The right to express yourself . (As long as it is not preaching hatred/violence etc.)


once you break these right , then basically you are not human - you become an animal and until you are prepared to become a human - your rights should be curtailed - That doees not mean you can be abused but it does mena you cannot hide behind the human rights legislation

can you imagine Gerralds (typo) ex SS office hiding behind this legisalation ..

However we do need to be able to offer protected rights to prisoners that they are fed, watered , and not abused , that they have contact with their families, that we do try to give them a way out of their own unacceptable existiance -, a lot of criminals get stuck into a criminal way of life ..

However this all deviates from the core of the post .

The basic human right to live - has been denied to this young boy . for all we know he may of been the next Mozart or a great footballer, he may just of been a decent young man - we will never know, I don't know the area where he was killed or where he lived , but I presume its on one of these estates that are leftovers from the 60's /70's , If people valued their neighbourhoods then there would be less violence,
communities would be more welcoming and these young kids would be able to play without fear

perhaps I am niavie (?),

g

 

[Len Boorman]

I think that it is about time thatthe Government that said it would be tough on crime actually started to do what it said.

Frankly there is a level of person who do not understand the idea that you need to work for what you want and that just taking it from others is not acceptable.

These persond only see those who attempt to re-integrate them into society as a weakness of society. They have no interest in becomming a citizen, that's too hard for them. It is easy to just take what they want.

Regarding Rhys.

He was probably murdered by a juvenile. A juvenile probably acting as a runner for one of the gangs. The gang leaders use juveniles because they are treated differently under the law.

Did his parents have no idea that he was getting involved with gang warfare basically and that at some time the gang leaders would ask for some act for them to prove their allegiance to the gang.

So what is to be done.

Very difficult if you intend to consider these people as actually wanting to reform or indeed being prepared to reform.

Fact is in my opinion is that they have no wish to reform so then action becomes easier.

1) Above a certain crime level there is no parole. They serve the sentence.
2) Having infringed somebodies Rights they basically forfeit their own. Okay no abuse but imprisonment is just that.
3) Parents should be held responsible for their children. If it is serious enough the one of the Parents does the time
4) If you do not have residential rights in this country then commit a crime then you are deported. Maybe Parking and Speeding excluded but make it clear

Okay radical you might say but this sort of action is the only action they would understand

Go to go cos otherwise I would rant

L

 

[Rich]

A government tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime would help.

 

[Alc]

The gang leaders use juveniles because they are treated differently under the law.

This disparity has been around for years, unfortunately.

I grew up in a bad area (esp. with regards to car theft and burglary). When I was in my teens, a local youth centre used to allow Labour supporters - you knew them by their badges - to hand out leaflets to the visiting kids. These leaflets covered exactly what your rights were, if stopped by the police, as well as a list of the crimes you could commit with a reasonable expectation of not being charged, even if you were caught. They were a guide to local delinquents on how best to play the system.

Even as a teenager, I thought there was something a little wrong with this.

The end result was that the leaflets circulated among many of those in the school I attended and was used by no small number of people as, more or less, a 'to do' list. Things to get out of the way before they turned 18 and could be fully proscuted.

I realise that borstals didn't work and that kids can't be imprisoned with adults, but these bleeding hearts who say that they have no idea of the consequences of their actions because of their age are living in a dream world. Kids today aren't like something out of an Enid Blyton book and the sooner the laws are changed to reflect this, the better.

My two penn'eth, anyway.

 

[GaryPanic]

tough on crime and the causes of crime
sounds great, but you need to have infrastructure to back this up .

Lets look at this -
1. your rights as a citizen - actual none, its pur luck that you are born in a country that ahs some decent values and if we changed how we view this to what can I do for society, to impove it then society would improve

yes I know 1 person can only do so much, but as an example
if all the dog owners in the country took their dogs for the morning walks and picked up 10 pieces of rubbish
that would be 70 pieces of rubbish in a week - what impact does that have - well start multipling this
1million dog owners thats 70,000,000 in a week - that starts to have an effect.

for those in the UK - If you saw the today programme 7 oclcok BBC 1 where they ahd a rant about plastics and too much wrapping on items .

if you went to the shop and told them you want your toothpaste (example) and then took it out of the box and left the box and enough of us did this then Tesco/sainsbury's etc would ask the suppliers to do soemthing about it

there is people power and we should use it .

as to how to stem the blood flow that seems to be happening in the UK
Parents do have the major role to play in this , but so do schools , and also heros and celebs ,

if we were going to be hard on this , then we could start by not letting Amy Winehouse be put up for an award - her drug taking and lifestyle is killing her, and is a bad example to the impressionable youngsters .

Now i know a lot of good music has come out of the drug scene ,(60's/70's)
but look at the damage its doing now . time to stop this ,

we need to get kids involved in looking after their environment so they value it , we need to get them intergrating with the oldies,

now this is easrier said than done , but I do try and see if there is something I can do for someone else, whether it be just hold a door open, or if i see someone carry a heavy load , ask em if they need help - see someone in a wheel chair going up a hill, ask them if the need a push .

you will be surprised at the response a smile , even a no thanks - but its the point of recognising that someone may need a hand and that people re prepared to offer help ..
I offer to push a young guy up the hill in his wheel chair - it knackered me out pushing this up the hill , but what it would have been for him.. and i told him so , we had a good laugh at it , it made his day and in an exhausted way mine as well knowing that i had done 1 small good deed for the day

 

[scott-atkinson]

but I do try and see if there is something I can do for someone else, whether it be just hold a door open, or if i see someone carry a heavy load , ask em if they need help - see someone in a wheel chair going up a hill, ask them if the need a push .

you will be surprised at the response a smile , even a no thanks - but its the point of recognising that someone may need a hand and that people re prepared to offer help ..
I offer to push a young guy up the hill in his wheel chair - it knackered me out pushing this up the hill , but what it would have been for him.. and i told him so , we had a good laugh at it , it made his day and in an exhausted way mine as well knowing that i had done 1 small good deed for the day

Gary,

This would be the perfect society, however alot of people, thankfully the minority, do not share your view, and their only goal in life is to screw the next person to them for as much as they can get, that unfortunatley is the sad indictment of today's society.

We are told that we can be prosecuted if we smack our children by the do-gooders, yet children need discipline, I was smacked as a child and I have not turned into a child/women beater! I consider myself a relatively good guy just trying to work hard and provide the best for my family, as do most of us.

I agree with all the posts so far, society needs to change and we are the people who need to change it, but while all the political parties are pretty much same, what choices do we have they have the overall say in the country not the people.

In some ways, I view that a society under communisim would be better, that this, yes ok I know we lose freedom of speech and in some sense liberty as well, but heh people were safer and knew their position in life, as is testament to Russia they have only started to see a breakdown in society to degeneration since democracy took a hold.

I have too small children, and sometimes I fear for their safety as they grow up in this country.

One thing is clear, society in this country needs to change for the better, only that way can we prevent the innocents like Rhys Jones from becoming just another statistic of crime.

 

[GaryPanic]

agree with most of your post Scott

and I know that I might be a bit niavie(?) - but going to communisim a bit extreme, no I think that if you look at Japan , there they value people differnently - its all about manners - (I am not saying Japan is fab or anything) - just that by being polite and having values - then society would be better

 

[GaryPanic]

You could always vote for me - to become dicator (?) I might get it wrong - but hell the buck would stop with me .

I would free up judges to impose punishments that fit the crime

Education would hav a major boost - cos if you don't get a set level then you don't get to leave school

 

[Pauldohert]

Gary,


I have too small children.

Its OK Scott - they will grow!