Speak English

[dt01pqt]

I recall going to a big grocery store near the Miami airport a few years ago where the produce was labelled in Spanish and, too, the checkout clerk asked for my money in Spanish.

Regards,
Tim

Go to Spanish Harlem in New York or the Spanish part of Soho (with your bodyguard). If you sneeze near to an older person they are more than likely to say bless you in Spanish. Because they are too superstitious to let it go and their English might not be that good. This of course is a generalisation but it does work quite well.

 

[MrsGorilla]

1 in 7 of the American population is Hispanic, in order to lay claim to the charge that they all live on benefits would mean that the entire unemployed of America are Hispanic.

You can't really generalize by that either. You have to differentiate between those of Hispanic origin who have chosen to become U.S. citizens and those who are in the country illegally. Those who become U.S. citizens are more likely to make an effort to assimilate and hold down decent jobs than those who are here illegally waiting for a handout. I don't know all the ins and outs of this argument which is why I haven't posted sooner, but I know you can't make a blanket statement like that. My husband's mother is of Mexican descent. Her parents (my husband's grandparents) moved to Texas from Mexico and didn't speak any English, or at least very little. But they became citizens and did their best to adjust to life here in the U.S., work, and raise their kids (all 13 of them, whew!) to the best of their ability. Their kids (mother-in-law included) all grew up speaking both Spanish and English and have been decent people. The ones who cross the border illegally and make no effort to adjust to our culture but want everyone else in the country to adjust to theirs are more likely to be the ones causing the majority of the problems discussed in this thread.

 

[JBishton]

Why do you suppose people in our country are advocating changing government documents to be in Spanish as well as English?

States are being sued for it, the general population disagrees with it, yet it continues.

Who are these people? Certainly, you would expect a more thought out response from the Hispanic intelligentsia, but they are some of the most ardent supporters. You would think the Spanish speaking politicians would get on a “learn English” band wagon, but none has materialized...

You might be interested in this link Mr. Sanders:

http://www.minutemanhq.com/hq/mmpledge.php I say get control of the borders.

 

[statsman]

despite welsh ancestory I cannot think what else Wales is noted for

Brian

What about the Queen's Corgis (with docked tails)

 

[pono1]

Go to Spanish Harlem in New York or the Spanish part of Soho (with your bodyguard)... If you sneeze near to an older person they are more than likely to say bless you in Spanish. Because they are too superstitious to let it go and their English might not be that good. This of course is a generalisation but it does work quite well.

Ah, yes -- I had a memorable, all English, sneezeless night in Soho once upon a time...

Regards,
Tim

 

[Rich]

Yes thank you, I understand, we face the same problems here but obviously on a smaller scale, I did ask what the government was doing about it and you've now answered, nothing.
We're told by our glorious leader pretty much the same tripe, I don't wish ill of those seeking a better future but we simply don't have the room, the island's overcrowded now.

 

[Rich]

Ah, yes -- I had a memorable, all English, sneezeless night in Soho once upon a time...

Regards,
Tim

Well I had a memorable, all English, sleepless night in Soho once upon a time too, just in a different country

 

[jsanders]

I think Pat echoes the sentiments of most Americans.
One of the most important facts left out in Pats writings is the larger problem of the trade deficit with China. It’s not 20 billion per year it 600 billion.


The problem actually has several roots. Not all of which are political in nature. It started about 30 years ago when the international movement of money grew at an unprecedented rate. This was facilitated by the maturing of the major economic powerhouses like
Germany, Japan, and the US.

Once the western world had finished paying for WWII either by the end of reconstruction or the satisfaction of the debts, the increased world capital needed new places to go to realize the type of growth it had been experiencing since the end of the war. The only places where this kind of growth could be realized were in developing countries.

This started the massive redistribution of capital that created the growth in the Far East. Latin America was mostly left out of this investment due to corruption, and cultural issues.

Another factor in the decision to invest in China was to make them more western and by doing so, making it less likely they would rise up to start a global conflict. I’m not sure that will have the desired effect but that a discussion for another thread.

That’s the money side of it. Another major factor was that all this Latino corruption, and lack of investment, was exacerbated by high birth rate and improved life spans which created growth of population in excess of economic growth, making upward mobility an almost impossible dream.

This is the scenario we face now not from increased birth rate but because of immigration. Our population growth at the low end of the economic pool is really one of the biggest problems America faces over the next 25 years or so. If we don’t all get together and fix it now I think our future as one of the World's leading economies is in grave jeopardy.

The answer is clear. While we still have the financial might we should force the Latin American countries to clean up their acts, end corruption and make it safer to invest in their countries.

Once progress is made in this area we should invest heavily. This would do several things. First it would redirect resources to Latino countries improving their way of life and increasing employment. Second it would make it less attractive to migrate to the US. Given a choice people will work closer to home rather that farther.

Over time as the industrial base grows these countries will have developing markets for higher end American made products, such as airplanes, trains, and power plants.


Once the middle class starts to evolve they will come here as tourist bringing some of the money back.

The world will soon discover that the global economy is ravaging the middle class and that the standard the middle class is measured by will be averaged lower by the inclusion of so many workers willing to work at below living wages.

In short, the way I see it, is that eventually we will not be in a global economy as such, but more of a regional one. Where free trade between the major regions will be tariffed more than now, to protect workers within the regions.

The now nearly defunct European Union is the prototype of the economies of the 21st century. Once they have worked out the problems of balancing national pride with survival in the global trade circus, I think Europe will offer a model to emulate.

NAFTA or a derivation still has potential to accomplish this but in our current obsession with terrorism and “family values” there doesn’t seem to be the political will to make it flourish.

More on the actual language issue in my upcoming opinion.

 

[pono1]

Well I had a memorable, all English, sleepless night in Soho once upon a time too, just in a different country

That's a bit of a coinkydink.

Regards,
Tim

 

[Rich]

While we still have the financial might we should force the Latin American countries to clean up their acts, end corruption and make it safer to invest in their countries.



.

Mmmmmmmmmm, you mean like your policy in Iraq, and as far as corruption goes isn't this a prime example of the kettle black pot maxim. Perhaps you should be cleaning up your own country first.
As far as the Chinese go I think you'll find that they are investing heavily in the US too.
And as for blaming everybody else for the fall in strength of the dollar it was the war in Nam that destroyed its strength, in fact it's now European and Far Eastern finance that funds your deficit. Of course it's in their interests to do so

 

[Rich]

The now nearly defunct European Union

Eh? when did it cease?

 

[Rich]

Over time as the industrial base grows these countries will have developing markets for higher end American made products, such as airplanes, trains, and power plants.

I'm afraid you'll have to face the fact that as far as reliability goes the Japanese have the march on all of us, you face a long uphill struggle with the fact that for years American companies have simply spent their profits on the good life instead of re-investing, Bush's attempt at banning imports of steel is a prime example of ineptitude and arrogance.
The EU proved that it's not just cheap labour that produces steel at lower prices than the US and reacted accordingly to Bush's attempt at protectionism.
If your industry is to survive it needs to compete on a global market and that means drastic improvements in efficiency, not neccessarily lower wages.
I suspect that Bush's incompetence and flavour with big business is allowing the cheaper option for his buddies via the black market.
I'm sure you can work out why
As far as Minimum wage is concerned big business protested here that it would destroy jobs etc. the exact opposite has happened.
I'm also a little confused as to why you'd rather move the existing middle classes up a level rather than just increasing their numbers and thus creating a more level playing field.
As far as American products go I only have experience of one or two of them, years ago buying a pair of Levis made in the US was like stepping into cardboard, not any more, the last pair I bought was made in Morroco and didn't last any longer than the pair I bought cheaply in the local supermarket.
I'm not prepared to pay the asking price simply for a name that no longer stands for quality

 

[jsanders]

I'm also a little confused as to why you'd rather move the existing middle classes up a level rather than just increasing their numbers and thus creating a more level playing field.

I think that it’s important that the middle class grows all over the world, the faster the better. My fear here is that the movement of capital is so rapid now days it seams that the non living wage working class is growing faster than the middle class.

As far as the other things on your post we all know all that stuff. Although there are still many things made in the US you don’t see in England. Our cars and trucks have come along way towards bridging the gap to Japanese made quality. And mostly all the cars we drive here are made here even if they have Japanese or in some European name plates. And of course Daimler owns Chrysler (And good for the company as far as I’m concerned)

The thing is we really need to do something about this lowering of wages around the globe. It affects Europe as much as America and many of the European countries are in as dire straights as we are. Germany has high unemployment partly a result of their liberal social policies but mostly because of cheaper labor from the former Soviet countries. I buy tool for my machine shop from China, but when I want to upgrade I buy Polish made stuff. I do have to admit though that the American made micrograin carbide cuttings tools are definitely the best. You just have to pay more for them.

 

[Rich]

You can't blame Germany's problems on liberal policies, it's far more complicated than that,
a/ it's paying a high price for re-unification and
b/ it's facing difficulties with adjusting to the global market, it's also not prepared to pay the price of adhering to the dogmatic single mindedness of the single currency.
Whilst we may be doing better it's only because the changes required were forced on us by depression.
Most of Europe also faces problems with former S.U. citizens working for lower wages than our equivalent
Now as for reliability of American products I've already mentioned elsewhere that I won't buy Dewalt products anymore
a/ they're just far too expensive and don't last, the last Dewalt Drill I had was on its last legs within a short space of time.
b/ They're an immediate target for thieves over here
After the last one I had got stolen I bought a Chinese made equivalent for £40, the Dewalt costs over £300 here. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the £40 drill to me makes far more sense economically. I suspect most consumers including those in the US are of the same opinion.

 

[jsanders]

You can't blame Germany's problems on liberal policies, it's far more complicated than that,
a/ it's paying a high price for re-unification and
b/ it's facing difficulties with adjusting to the global market, it's also not prepared to pay the price of adhering to the dogmatic single mindedness of the single currency.
Whilst we may be doing better it's only because the changes required were forced on us by depression.
Most of Europe also faces problems with former S.U. citizens working for lower wages than our equivalent
Now as for reliability of American products I've already mentioned elsewhere that I won't buy Dewalt products anymore
a/ they're just far too expensive and don't last, the last Dewalt Drill I had was on its last legs within a short space of time.
b/ They're an immediate target for thieves over here
After the last one I had got stolen I bought a Chinese made equivalent for £40, the Dewalt costs over £300 here. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the £40 drill to me makes far more sense economically. I suspect most consumers including those in the US are of the same opinion.

Consumers here like to buy expensive tools but we pay less for them.
Your buying the wrong “American” tools first off DeWalt is made in China now.
Porter Cable, and Milwaukee are the two brands made tough in America. Mostly made for American Industry and construction trades.

I have 6 Porter Cable routers in the shop some of them are quite old. All of them are the same as the day they were bought, except for scratches and such.

 

[Rich]

DeWalt is made in China now.

Thats as maybe but they're still charging American prices the same as Levi

 

[jsanders]

Why don’t we start a home improvement thread? I want to keep this one going in the right direction.

 

[RV]

Make an effort to buy American. Even if you can't, at least make the retail stores know you want to. Ask to see American made models first and leave a few stores if they don't have any

It's all 'bout simple economical rules Pat.
We simply can't compete with labor rates and productivity and not even with quality of goods provided by the new booming economical hot spots.
In fact, a mass refusal to buy any foreign produced goods would end in a disastrous fall down of your countries economics.

Most people will go for the most reasonable prices and give a damn where the product would've been produced, as it has been since the first day men came around

Better hugely invest in the new booming hot spots so you do have a considerable saying on how "they" operate on "your" market.

Apart from that, you'll not be able to prevent China becoming one of the main market leaders, or better the market leader.

RV

 

[jsanders]

Americans spend over $1000 apiece at Wal-Mart each year. Only the upper middle class and above can afford to shop other places for the same stuff.

The rub, is that the very people that shop there are the ones paying the price.

I hire the Spanish guys myself to do menial and some not so menial jobs at my small business. I could not compete with the people that do it, if I didn’t.

But the language thing is something we need to correct or we will loose something more important than preeminence in the world economy, we will loose the culture of can do and the dream of a better life for our children.

 

[Rich]

I hire the Spanish guys myself to do menial and some not so menial jobs at my small business.

.

Do they speak Spanish?

I could not compete with the people that do it, if I didn’t.

If you can't compete then you're using inefficient methodology, you need to invest for the future.
I mean for starters you could do one of those menial tasks yourself instead of spending so much time here, scratch one softop