The Gay Bomb

[qailoh]

If they are going to use bombs to spray chemicals why dont they just send a bunch of American Farmers with a crap load of RoundUp to spray on all the poppy plants which are the source of the insurgent's funding...

Arguably a more sensible use for chemical weapons in this conflict, though I'd question it's effectiveness in curtailing hostilities at this point, and I suspect they'd have additional sources of funding...

or just nuke em and get it over with rather than spinning this long dirty war into another decade or two

Sad to say, this could be the only (questionably) effective means for eliminating the situation Bush's ill considered invasion has created, along the lines of cutting someone's head off to remove a brain tumor. Sure, the tumor would be gone...

 

[ColinEssex]

or just nuke em and get it over with rather than spinning this long dirty war into another decade or two

That worked well in Japan thousands of innocent people killed (like you're doing in Iraq really). Is that the normal US response to a problem, a nuclear bomb? It's a USA war so the sooner the USA admits defeat the better - it's going to happen, the USA always withdraw after destroying a country, causing chaos and civil war.


Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

You know, guys, that this entire thread is offensive. It's bad enough that we had Hobson's choice in the 2004 elections that gave GWB his "mandate." It's bad enough that the Iraq conflict started up because of a tragedy that had the effect of polarizing the USA populace into demanding action. It's bad enough that GWB hasn't got a clue and that Vice Pres. Cheney isn't letting George have any of his. He's keeping them close to his vest.

I do know this: Picking on gays is one of the final proofs I needed that religion isn't about peace or love. It is about trying to claim the moral high ground on preaching hatred - with gays as the scapegoats. But this thread only has the effect - you should pardon the pun - of fanning the flames.

The problem I have is simple. In the New Orleans music scene, I met a LOT of gays. I played music to earn my way through college. Mom and Dad never paid of dime of tuition. And a lot of gay musicians can ALSO make that statement. I'm not gay but as it happens, I am very close (in a non-romantic way) to more than one gay person. I must remain vague because the persons in question are not publicly "out" and that secret isn't mine to give.

The problem with the "Gay Bomb" stuff is that a LOT of USA military types don't really believe that it would work. What they believe is that some knee-jerk conservatives on Capitol Hill would pay money for a solution perceived as demeaning gays and our enemies at the same time. Of course, if some dumb-a$$ congressman HAD supported funding for such research, he would have been doing so for political reasons in the form of getting his name in the news. Some USA publicists say "No news is bad news when you need to be famous..."

Anyway, I won't try to defend the USA war in Iraq but I will say that some of you have been unkind in your views regarding kids dying far away from home in a place where they are lonely and deeply hated. I wish the war was over, I wish they would come home. I don't give a rat's patoot whether Iraq will fall into civial war that drags on for years. But if Saddam had died of natural causes (he wasn't THAT young, you know...) his death would have sparked exactly this same type of conflict. Except the USA wouldn't have been seen as QUITE so severe a villain.

On the other hand, I'm not surprised to hear that you guys think we are disliked around the world. At some point you have to stop and say, "Bugger off and think what you like. We are what we are and we aren't going away." Just like the gays do. Just like women did in the USA a hundred years ago (give or take) in the Suffrage movement.

I know this is a UK forum and that you kindly allow us poor distant cousins to post here now and then. But that kindness doesn't give you the right to be cruel about your comments.

My words will probably fall like water off a duck's back, but it still had to be said.

 

[Rich]

I wish the war was over, I wish they would come home. I don't give a rat's patoot whether Iraq will fall into civial war that drags on for years. But if Saddam had died of natural causes (he wasn't THAT young, you know...) his death would have sparked exactly this same type of conflict. Except the USA wouldn't have been seen as QUITE so severe a villain.

.

Any chance you'll run for president soon? You'll need to tackle the gun culture though......

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Gun culture isn't the problem. In a way, it is a solution. It is just that it is a solution to a problem that we don't have at the moment. But fighting the gun culture is ultimately self-defeating. In the time when you don't need it, there is no reason to push. And if you DID push successfully, there might come a time when you really needed those guns to be in the hands of the common people. But like I said, right now I don't think the gun culture is the problem.

The discovery by the religious far right that they can exert tremendous political pressure from their self-proclaimed moral high ground is the real problem. We are SUPPOSED to have government keep out of religion. Right now we are having a hard time keeping religious zealots out of government.

I'm not good material for president. They don't allow executive orders for beheading these days, and so many people in the public eye seem to deserve the low-bladed haircut. The office of president needs the patience of a saint but I have not previously been accused of that particular attribute. GWB doesn't have the patience of a saint, but then again, his sycophants do keep him busy - or at least occupied.

What worries me is that so far, the USA Democratic party hasn't come up with any really GREAT candidates. They are too splintered at the moment. The only saving grace is the term limits bill that blocks GWB from trying again. I try to not be disrespectful all of the time, but I get so depressed when looking at the choices on the USA political scene. What our country needs is a viable third-party candidate that is somewhere in the middle of the road. The USA was founded on compromise. The mess in Iraq can (IMHO) be partly traced back to a reaction to the 9/11 attack that led to a brief, near total polarization of the country. And GWB was there in that moment to take the mandate and run with it. GWB, despite what people say about him, is not dumb. He has been a corporate president for a non-trivial corporation. On the other hand, one could equally argue that his understanding of the basis for the USA's greatest strengths must be somehow diminished.

Fortunately for us, one of our Federal Appeals Courts has, in effect, slapped the government for the "enemy combatant" incarceration. GWB will probably try to appeal, but at least someone with a position of power had the guts to stand up to him. I'm waiting with bated breath to see whether the Supremes can must up one last hit: "Stop, in the name of law, before you break our hearts, think it over....." {to be sung with Motown background and beat}

 

[Bob Miller]

That worked well in Japan thousands of innocent people killed (like you're doing in Iraq really). Is that the normal US response to a problem, a nuclear bomb?

The bombs ended the slavery and killing of innocent Chinese and Koreans by the Japanese. In Nanking, China 370,000 men, women,children and babies were butchered by the Japanese and 80,00 women and girls were raped and many murdered and mutilated afterwards.
I'll bet you didn't know that more Japanese civilians were killed in the invasion of Okinawa than by the two bombs.
I would suggest that you go here before you condemn the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
It is ashamed that that civilians had to die but they had to die to end the war and the Japanese atrocities. It is estimated that millions would have died had we invaded the main islands.

It's a USA war so the sooner the USA admits defeat the better - it's going to happen, the USA always withdraw after destroying a country, causing chaos and civil war.


Col

As opposed to picking a fight with Germany in the middle of the last century and having to bailed out by Yanks.

 

[ColinEssex]

As opposed to picking a fight with Germany in the middle of the last century and having to bailed out by Yanks.

Yawn - do a search - we've covered this subject many times.

Col

 

[Joe8915]

The bombs ended the slavery and killing of innocent Chinese and Koreans by the Japanese. In Nanking, China 370,000 men, women,children and babies were butchered by the Japanese and 80,00 women and girls were raped and many murdered and mutilated afterwards.
I'll bet you didn't know that more Japanese civilians were killed in the invasion of Okinawa than by the two bombs.
I would suggest that you go here before you condemn the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
It is ashamed that that civilians had to die but they had to die to end the war and the Japanese atrocities. It is estimated that millions would have died had we invaded the main islands.



Very well said, thanks Bob

 

[Rich]

I'll bet you didn't know that more Japanese civilians were killed in the invasion of Okinawa than by the two bombs.

I'll bet you didn't know that many of them committed suicide when they heard the Yanks were coming

 

[Joe8915]

I'll bet you didn't know that many of them committed suicide when they heard the Yanks were coming

How many is many? Show me your source.

 

[Bob Miller]

Yawn - do a search - we've covered this subject many times.

Col

The trouble with some Brits is they seem to forget who their friends are. I feel a very close tie to you guys (well most of you.) Half of my ancestors were from England and I have visited four times because I love your country and its history. I was cheering all the way for you during the Falklands War.
We have fought side-by-side in many wars throughout history along with the Aussies, Kiwis, and Canadians yet you dismiss us in one broad stroke. You said we ALLWAYS withdraw yet 50 years ago we didn't and that is salient to answering your assinine statement.

 

[Bob Miller]

I'll bet you didn't know that many of them committed suicide when they heard the Yanks were coming

Actually, I did. The Japanese commanders told them to do it because, they said, US troops would commit all manner of atrocities. Yet we know they were only stating what they themselves would do and did do when invading other countries.
The Japs were responsible for everything that happened to them and their innocent civilians during WWII. You can't switch the blame to the Americans. We ended the war that they started. If they hadn't started it there would never have been a Horsima or Nagasaki or Okinawa or Nanking - oops the ra** of Nanking happened before Pearl Harbor.
Many historians maintain, as I stated that millions would have died if the US invaded the main islands. You can't cahnge that assessment, no matter how hard you click your heals together and wish, Dorothy.

 

[Rich]

I never pointed the finger of BLAME AT America for the suicides, don't attribute remarks to me that I haven't made.
As for the "historians" there are as many as you cite that actually are of the opinion that Truman dropped the bomb to try and ward off the Russians.
Who the hell's Dorothy, by the way

 

[Rich]

How many is many? Show me your source.

I never gave a figure, as for the source, it's well documented, try a search on Google

 

[Brianwarnock]

The trouble with some Brits is they seem to forget who their friends are. .

Yes friends who let us stand alone against the evil of Nazism whilst screwing every last penny out of us and only entered the war after Germany declared war on her(ie the USA). I have seen it documented somewhere but I cant put my hands on it at the moment that the US charged the allies for the ordanance supplied to them throughout the war, great friends if that is true.

I like Americans and America, I've visited 8 times and will be back next year, but many are very insular and need to get into the real world, but its a big country and has all sorts in it.

Brian

 

[qailoh]

I never pointed the finger of BLAME AT America for the suicides, don't attribute remarks to me that I haven't made.

*cough*

I'll bet you didn't know that many of them committed suicide when they heard the Yanks were coming

That sure looks like an attempt to demonstrate causation to me.

 

[ColinEssex]

You said we ALLWAYS withdraw yet 50 years ago we didn't and that is salient to answering your assinine statement.

That'll be 1957 then. . . . . .what war was that? wasn't that when the USA got very close to nuking Cuba?

As for WWII - we only finished the billions of dollars bill you charged for your effort last year - so forget the "helping out" shite, it was, as usual done for money by the USA

Col

 

[Rich]

Yes friends who let us stand alone against the evil of Nazism whilst screwing every last penny out of us and only entered the war after Germany declared war on her(ie the USA). I have seen it documented somewhere but I cant put my hands on it at the moment that the US charged the allies for the ordanance supplied to them throughout the war, great friends if that is true.



Brian

Now that's not fair, let's put it into some sort of context, they LENT us a hose pipe and spent the next 60years charging us for it and ramming it down our throats just how generous they were

 

[Rich]

That sure looks like an attempt to demonstrate causation to me.

Where?
I merely stated the facts

 

[ColinEssex]

You said we ALLWAYS withdraw yet 50 years ago we didn't and that is salient to answering your assinine statement.

Get the quote right Robby -

the USA always withdraw after destroying a country, causing chaos and civil war.

Thats one "L" in 'always'

I'm still trying to work out the 1957 war. . . . . . .would that be Korea? I can't quite recall which side the Americans were on, I think it was North because many allies were killed by the USA then as they are in Iraq.

Col