War in Georgia (1 Viewer)

[ColinEssex]

Can anyone explain what the current war in Georgia (v Ruskies) has to do with the USA?

The Yanks are now supplying weapons to Georgia. (according to Sky news)

I must have missed the reasoning behind all this.

Col

 

[Rich]

Can anyone explain what the current war in Georgia (v Ruskies) has to do with the USA?

The Yanks are now supplying weapons to Georgia. (according to Sky news)

I must have missed the reasoning behind all this.

Col

To plan for the next "Afghanistan, Iraq"

 

[Brianwarnock]

I see the headlines are blaming Russia whilst the small print says that Georgis invaded Ossetia. I hope Brown has the gumption to keep out of it.

Brian

 

[Rabbie]

I wonder if it is coincidence the Russians started this when a)Putin was out of the country and b)the Olympics were starting.

 

[justice]

russian people are misinformed about the terrible war in Georgia. They are made to go as soldiers and fight in the battle against Georgian people. The russian information sites are spreading lies and deteriorating the conflict. Nothing is the price for the lives of innocent people. Peacefull citizens are shot. This kind of cruelty has not happened for past years. Russia ! Why can not you satisfy with the huge lands you have???!! Why do not you stop killing innocent people??? !! Who takes the responsibility for all the blood in these small land.

Other countries are SCARED!! FRIGHTENED!! They are afraid of Russia. But they do not realise that their time will come soon after Georgia. THIS WAR has to be stopped!! The world invader has to be stopped!!!!!!!!!
In these minutes it is killing the peacefull citizens.. Somebody ! please stop the war


The true story goes here.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/09/georgia.ossetia/index.html

 

[ColinEssex]

russian people are misinformed about the terrible war in Georgia. They are made to go as soldiers and fight in the battle against Georgian people. The russian information sites are spreading lies and deteriorating the conflict. Nothing is the price for the lives of innocent people. Peacefull citizens are shot. This kind of cruelty has not happened for past years. Russia ! Why can not you satisfy with the huge lands you have???!! Why do not you stop killing innocent people??? !! Who takes the responsibility for all the blood in these small land.

Other countries are SCARED!! FRIGHTENED!! They are afraid of Russia. But they do not realise that their time will come soon after Georgia. THIS WAR has to be stopped!! The world invader has to be stopped!!!!!!!!!
In these minutes it is killing the peacefull citizens.. Somebody ! please stop the war


The true story goes here.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/09/georgia.ossetia/index.html

Here's some news for you. The "world invader" is not Russia - but it does end in an "a".

Col

 

[redneckgeek]

My guess is that the UN will have some strongly worded statements against Russia on this - as long as Russia approves them.

 

[citizen]

To Rabbie and Justice: Russia didn't started this war.
Here is an hour by hour from Lenta.ru http://www.lenta.ru/articles/2008/08/08/ossetia/
8-8-08
00:06 Georgia had started an artillery bombardment of Tsihinvalli. Georgian news declared that they had started the war and are now taking the capitol of Ossetia
00:42 Commander of Georgian forces Kurashvilli declared this operation as a "restoring constitutional law in the respublic", also asked Russian peace keepers to stay out of it.
1:38 storming of Tsinhvalli is on the way from multiple directions
2:08 Georgia notified the peace keeping forces about the beginning of a millitary operation
2:37 Abkhasia send 1000 volunteers to South Osetia
3:46 Gerogian tanks rolling into the Tsinhvalli which is now encircled
4:30 Russia demands the call of SC of UN
4:48 Reinforcements from North Osetia arrive in Tsinhvalli
6:49 Abhkasia moves its army to the Georgian border
7:12 Georgian AF strickes targets in Osetia
8:56 Geogian forces have struck Russian peacekeepers
9:23 Georgian Media deсlares Tsinhvalli as a taken city
9:44 3 Russian peacekeepers are wounded
10:44 Georgia promisses an amnesty to South Osetian goverment officials
10:09 UN security counsel declined Russian attempt of warning Georgia. Just voiced its concerns...
10:21 Presidents of north and south Osetia denied claims of Tsinhvalli take over.
10:39 Georgia claimes Russian AF stricke on Georgia
10:58 Georgia asks Russia to step in and be a peace keeper.
11:10 Saakashvilli declares a draft...
11:10 Russia confirms its dead soldiers in the conflict.

11:19 Georgian media claimes that it shot down a Russian bomber
11:48 Saakashvilli demands that Russians stop bombing its cities...
11:47 Saakashvilli blames Russia for the full millitary aggression
11:54 Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs completelly denied any shot down bomber
12:10 Russian channel 1 reports heavy fighting in Tsihnvalli
12:18 US demand a stop in the fighting
12:36 Russian peace keepers confirm attacks on their positions
12:37 parlament of North Osetia beggs for Russina involvment
12:55 South osetian hospital is destroyed.
13:12 NATO General secretary demands a stop in the fighting
14:10 there is only remaining South Osetian resistance point in Tshinvalli. Georgian tanks are in the city
14:30 Mayor of Tbilisi declares 2 hour moratorium in the fire zone.
14:31 Russain peace keepers call BS
12:36 Putin in conversation with Bush, said that he is afraid that he will not be able to stop all Russian volunteers from going to help...
15:00 Georia temporary stops the artlillery fire
15:29 Georgian forces are leaving Tsinhvalli, as Russian tanks gets closer
15:33 Georgian media claims that Russian AF is stricking Georgian positions in Osetia
15:52 Osetians claim to have destroyed at least 4 Georgian tanks
16:00 Georgia threatens Russia with war.

16:11 Russian Defence ministry: Russia is sending reinforcements for the peace keepers.
16:20 Georgia claims that Russian AF struck bases in Georgia with American instructors being there.
16:40 Fighting in Tsinhvalli is over. City is leveled
16:50 Russina counsel in NATO send notes of protest in conncetion with new war.
16:58 Georgian Ministry of Foreign affairs begs the world to sav his country from Russia. To which Lavrov replied that earlier that morning Georgia specifically asked Russia to interveene as aa peace keeper.
17:01 Volunteers helped push Georgian forces out of Tshinvalli
17:20 Osetians give Georgins in Tsinhvalli an ultimatum to leave the city
17:26 Russian Defence Ministry: Georgians are executing south osetinas and are not allowing them to get their wounded out.
17:34 Death toll in Tsinhvalli in the thousands
17:53 Russia claimes that Georgia is ethnically cleansing the taken terriroty. Warns of humanitarian catastrophy
17:55 One Russian bomber struck the landing strip on Georgian AF base
18:06 Russian tanks open fire on Georgian forces in Tsinhvalli
18:22 Osetian president: there nuhdreds dead. $ Georgian tanks are destroyed
18:58 Saakashvilli is pulling Geaorgian forces out of Iraq
19:07 Georgia claimes 3 dead in Russian attack on its AF base.
19:23 Russia stops any domestic flights to and from Georgia
19:32 Russian AF claimes to have destroyed several Georgian planes.
19:37 Russian 58th army defeated Georgian positions which were earlier attacking the Russian positions.
and so on...

I would like to know what the US would do if their peace keepers and citizens were attaked and wounded by some other country? would they stay calm and nice saying, 'Come on, guys, keep on doing this!'

IF ONLY YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE THOSE REFUGEES TELLING ABOUT INCREDIBLE ATROCITIES COMMITED BY "FREE AND CIVILIZED' GEORGIANS AGAINST "SEPARATISTS" (MAINLY CHILDREN, WOMEN AND ELDER PEOPLE) AND RELATIVES OF THOSE WHO ARE DEAD OR STILL THERE AND CAN'T GET OUT BECAUSE "BRAVE" GEORIAN SOLDIERS" SHOOT ALL THE VEHICLES INCLUDING AMBULANCES!

If anybody helps them they are the same criminals as the nazist Saakhashvili!

 

[Sum Guy]

Funny isn't it. The Russians used the same "povocation" to invade other former Soviet republics. It appears that Moscow is bound and determined to re-unite the old Russian empire one way or another.
The Georgian Army consists of approx. 100,000 troops, about 100 tanks, about 200 pieces of artillery and almost no air force. They'd be kind of dumb to start shooting at the Russians don't you think?
Georgia has applied for membership in NATO to prevent just this sort of intervention. The Russians had to move fast to prevent this.

 

[Rabbie]

To Rabbie and Justice: Russia didn't started this war.
Here is an hour by hour from Lenta.ru http://www.lenta.ru/articles/2008/08/08/ossetia/

I am sure this site is completely unbiased and neutral about this.

 

[statsman]

If the Russians are only trying to remove the Georgian invaders from Ossetia, why are they bombing Tbliisi?

Perhaps the cold war mentality lingers, but I have a difficult time seeing thousands of Russian troops supported by hundreds of tanks and half the Russian Air Force as Peacekeepers or Liberators.

 

[citizen]

Ok. You don't believe officials. I can understand you. But what about those refugees who escaped from that region TO RUSSIA (NOT GEORGIA) and their relatives many of whom stay in Russia now? They tell with tears in their eyes about Georgian atrocities like running over women and children with tanks, casting granades into basements with children, women and old ones when steping back. You want to say that several thousands people are lying as well.

And nobody is bombing Tbilisi, where by the way, there are lots of Russians having rest or doing business there.

If Russia wanted to turn Georgia back why didn't it helped the opposition in Georgia to throw down Saakhashvili's regime much earlier. It would be much easier. We knew that he is pro-US and even gets salary and military support from some American funds (Soros, e.g.). This fact isn't even concealed. How do you think can such a president and government be absolutely free in his decisions?

But we decided to invade small Georgia now, after 2000 its soldiers were trained in Iraq, official American-Georgian drills were organised, and after Georgia was increasing its military basis.

Besides, there were at least 2 American citizens (not of Slavic or Caucasian origin) in South Osetia. One of them is a reporter from Alaska, he is wounded and is in the "what-left-of-the-hospital", i.e. in the basement in Tshinvali together with other Osetians.
they don't even have enough water and medicine to help patients, saying nothing of food. The other could escape from there and told about what happened there (in English, by the way). Or you don't believe your fellow-countrymen as well?

Here you can find fotos and video from the region. www.vesti.ru/videos?vid=142545 If you don't believe just think why in almost all the world mass media only one point of view is reflected? If you are intrested a little go there and watch those videorolics. Unfortunately they are in Russian but I think you can distinquish Russian Cyrilic alphabet on the ambulances and on the remnamts of the city buildings. these aren't Georgian cities at all that are destroyed. It's awful and incredible what has happened there.

What hurts the fact that politicians try not only to kill people treacherously at night after Saakhashvili's promise not to wage war during Olympics but to quarrel friendly nations - Georgians, Osetianss and Russians. I hope they won't succeed because we have very strong ties like mixed marriages, frienship and relative connections. many Georgians come to Russia to work here and Russians go there to relatives, for business or holiday. And this is proved by yesterday's friendly embrace and kiss of two girls - Russian and Georgian - at the Olympics.

 

[citizen]

To statsman: Are you in Tbilisi now?

People say that just American aircrafts are flying over their heads in Tbilisi. (from telephone call)

 

[Rabbie]

I see the headlines are blaming Russia whilst the small print says that Georgis invaded Ossetia. I hope Brown has the gumption to keep out of it.

Brian

South Ossetia is actually a part of Georgia. There has been a rebellion there backed by the Russians and the Georgians have attempted to restore order and the whole thing has escalated.

It seems the Russians want to restore their control over those parts which became independent because of the oil(surprise surprise)

 

[Rabbie]

To statsman: Are you in Tbilisi now?

People say that just American aircrafts are flying over their heads in Tbilisi. (from telephone call)

It seems that Russia is sending troops into Georgia not just South Ossetia. See this link

Also it seems that Russia has rejected a cease fire. Hardly the action of a peace keeper.

 

[Brianwarnock]

.

It seems the Russians want to restore their control over those parts which became independent because of the oil(surprise surprise)

Whilst this is undoubtedly true, the fact is that the Ossetians are no more Georgian than the Georgians Russian, so why can one have its Independence and not the other? This is a common problem Matebeleland from Zimbabwe, The Sourthern States from the North plus many other spring to mind. The world is complex and it would appear that the Georgians have given the Russians the excuse they needed.

Brian

 

[Rabbie]

Whilst this is undoubtedly true, the fact is that the Ossetians are no more Georgian than the Georgians Russian, so why can one have its Independence and not the other? This is a common problem Matebeleland from Zimbabwe, The Sourthern States from the North plus many other spring to mind. The world is complex and it would appear that the Georgians have given the Russians the excuse they needed.

Brian

I quite agree that this is a very complex situation. I am sure there are faults on both sides. I am sure the timing of this flare-up is not coincidence and is related to the Olympic games and the recent surge in oil prices.

It seems to be clear now that Russia is extending its military operations from the disputed areas into Georgia proper. Let us hope that a peaceful solution is found soon.

 

[Rich]

What about Bush warning the Russians about the use of excessive force

 

[Rabbie]

What about Bush warning the Russians about the use of excessive force

Pots and Kettles come to mind

 

[citizen]

Completely agree, the situation is extremely difficult. and it's clear that both sides don't want to yield, at least now. And I can't see as well why people can't live peacefully with their neighbours. Is the identity more important than life? But killing weak, helpless and unarmed is disgusting. Just cowards and crazy lunatics can do this.

I can't judge up to what place Russian troops moved forward into Georgia proper, I'm not there, but neither can you, I think. If some news agencies report about their advancing into Georgia proper, other ones tell about forcing out Georgian troops from Osetian territory. consider it's rather difficult to estimate the situation only on this basis. And almost every night Tskhinvali is bombarded. I wonder by Russians and Osetians?

Rabbie, what kind of rebellion do you mean? Sleeping in beds at 00.06 on the 8th of August?
If they had organized this rebellion, couldn't they sent all their non-soldiers into Russia or organize their defence at least? Or didn't they realize that Georgia would send troops and try to put it down? Why didn't they prepar food, medicines, water and so on? Are they kamikadzes? Or they don't care a pin for their children and women?


Oh, I was unpleasantly disconcerted at the US representative's behaviour at the UN session today. it was shown in the news. When Russian representative was talking about the situation in South Osetia telling facts and giving reasons, he didn't even listen. (What for? Everything is solved, isn't it?) And then once again blamed Russia for tensing the situation in the region. Churkin had to tell him to put a microphone in his ear, before he should explain everything once again. Is this the way to resolve the conflict? Can you name this behaviour responsible and characterising a serious adult? I can't.
About Russian role in these conflicts: In 1992, Georgia was forced to accept a ceasefire to avoid a large scale confrontation with Russia. The government of Georgia and South Ossetian separatists reached an agreement to avoid the use of force against one another, and Georgia pledged not to impose sanctions against South Ossetia. However, the Georgian government still retains control over substantial portions of South Ossetia, including the town of Akhalgori.[22] A peacekeeping force of Ossetians, Russians and Georgians was established. On November 6, 1992, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) set up a Mission in Georgia to monitor the peacekeeping operation. From then, until mid-2004 South Ossetia was generally peaceful. (from wikipedia)

I don't want to say that Russia is white and fluffy, that it doesn't have its interests in the region (who wants to have a hostile neighbour?), but facts speak: from 1992 till 2004 there was no war, no conflict between all the sides ( including Abkhazia). Shevarnadze, the previous Georgian president, wasn't as well our "beloved fellow", but both countries needed each other (for economical, cultural, religious, etc. reasons) and everything was more or less acceptable. We are not interested in one more war, and destabilization in the region, when there are lots of problems in our country. But when somebody commits crime, there must be done something.

I was in Abkhazia myself in 2002 with my family. People lived their lives as anywhere else, tried to restore the country after the war (though there were many traces of it left). It's very beautiful there, there are many places to see, including famous (especially in former Soviet Union) resorts, monastery, underground caves (impressive), ancient towns...). I didn't see any criminals or terrorists in camouflages but just peaceful people. Abkhazian resorts are becoming more and more popular. That would be a pity if the war starts once again.

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