Wars

[Isaac]

It's scary what is happening between Israel and Iran ... Israel and Gaza ... Russia and Ukraine ... and probably others I'm not thinking of at this precise moment.

Pray for peace before WWIII starts

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Past a certain point, there IS no difference between what we have and WW III. Consider WW I, which was not actually called that right away. It was always "The Great War." Then WW II came along and the news wonks needed to differentiate between two distinct wars, each fought on a global level. While the name WW II was used speculatively as early as 1938, it didn't become "official" until Harry Truman signed some document for the Secretary of War in September, 1945 to officially name that conflict WW II. I guess they needed an official designation so they could account for the lost equipment as "expended in combat/WW II" or something like that.

 

[Isaac]

Past a certain point, there IS no difference between what we have and WW III. Consider WW I, which was not actually called that right away. It was always "The Great War." Then WW II came along and the news wonks needed to differentiate between two distinct wars, each fought on a global level. While the name WW II was used speculatively as early as 1938, it didn't become "official" until Harry Truman signed some document for the Secretary of War in September, 1945 to officially name that conflict WW II. I guess they needed an official designation so they could account for the lost equipment as "expended in combat/WW II" or something like that.

I guess I subconsciously meant "a war that directly involves Us" ,, now I realize that

 

[Pat Hartman]

We haven't had a war inside our boundaries since the Civil War unless you want to count the various Indian wars that carried on into the 20th century. That means the American public doesn't have any memory of what hell war actually is. We had skirmishes with Canada when it was still a colony same as us. And then there was the war with Mexico where we ended up acquiring parts of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas. We have been very sheltered for all of our existence as a country. With rockets armed with nukes, we are no longer safe from countries like Iran who don't care about mutually assured destruction because they are quite happy to meet their maker since he comes with 72 virgins.

 

[Steve R.]

Finally, instead of endless talking,talking, and talking - action has been taken. Starting with Obama circa 2009, the US and Iran began negotiating a nuclear deal that has basically gone nowhere in 16 years! Clearly the Iranians were not interested in reaching an agreement. Worse, under Biden, the Biden administration appeased Iran by not enforcing sanctions and giving Iran the gift of money. That may have further emboldened Iran not to give-in to US demands.

Now a new sheriff is in town. Trump gave Iran 60 days to reach an agreement but Iran continued to bluster not believing that they would be attacked. Now the 61st day has arrived. Deadlines have meaning.

Trump says he gave Iran a 60-day ultimatum: ‘Today is day 61… Now they have, perhaps, a second chance!’

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

“Two months ago I gave Iran a 60-day ultimatum to ‘make a deal.’ They should have done it! Today is day 61. I told them what to do, but they just couldn’t get there. Now they have, perhaps, a second chance!” Trump says in a post on Truth Social.

 

[MarkK]

We haven't had a war inside our boundaries since the Civil War unless you want to count the various Indian wars that carried on into the 20th century. That means the American public doesn't have any memory of what hell war actually is. We had skirmishes with Canada when it was still a colony same as us. And then there was the war with Mexico where we ended up acquiring parts of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas. We have been very sheltered for all of our existence as a country. With rockets armed with nukes, we are no longer safe from countries like Iran who don't care about mutually assured destruction because they are quite happy to meet their maker since he comes with 72 virgins.

I find it interesting you make such a nuanced acknowledgement your nation has no idea "what hell war actually is," backed up with historical examples, and then leading to an exploration of the dynamics of how that history has affected the people's understanding.
• But then, without missing a beat, you cite absurdly simplistic tropes like they "don't care about mutually assured destruction," and "they are quite happy to meet their maker since he comes with 72 virgins."
Do you think it's just human nature we don't attribute to other peoples or cultures the same depth of nuance and dynamism we see in ourselves?

 

[Isaac]

But then, without missing a beat, you cite absurdly simplistic tropes like they "don't care about mutually assured destruction," and "they are quite happy to meet their maker since he comes with 72 virgins."
Do you think it's just human nature we don't attribute to other peoples or cultures the same depth of nuance and dynamism we see in ourselves?

Hmm. I'll have to ponder this for a while. To me her observations are valid, i.e., people whose nation is shored up with a religion that firmly believes certain things that WOULD in fact lead them to not care about mutually assured destruction.........But I can see what you are getting at, that they probably themselves believe there is more nuance than we are giving them credit for. I have no idea if that's true of course, I only know the part Pat mentioned which I do believe is true - but I'm willing to consider/second think it.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Do you think it's just human nature we don't attribute to other peoples or cultures the same depth of nuance and dynamism we see in ourselves?

Blame evolution that causes us to always seek (and to always believe that we deserve) the ascendancy of me and mine over thee and thine. Inborn competitiveness as a survival trait can be rough sometimes. It is easy to accept someone into one's group when there is no attitude of divisiveness driving any conflict. When tempers are flaring and resource sharing isn't very effective, human competitiveness will indeed poison the chance for one to be willing to accept the differences in others.

 

[Cotswold]

That and Ukraine are a real mess. Both evolving solution-less nightmares.
I cannot see a solution but neither can I understand the mentality, or aspirations of these people. Surely they can see what the end game will be?
It is more than obvious that many countries, UK, Canada, USA, the EU where the least able proliferate at the present time. Is it also the case in those countries of which we know little about their leaders?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

That and Ukraine are a real mess. Both evolving solution-less nightmares.

Oh, the solution exists. But it only lasts for a generation or two.

When the war goes far enough, one side or the other runs out of soldiers and can't hire enough mercenaries to get the job done. Victory by attrition. The next generation or two, enough kids have grown up and the nation has built up enough monetary resources (or built enough weapon factories) to resume hostilities, fueled by ancestral hatred as the kids remember the parents they lost and decide it is revenge time.

 

[Cotswold]

They say; commeth the hour, commeth the man.

But in the West all we can see are idealists, dreamers, fanatics and committees.
As an example; Van de Leyen is the best that the whole of Europe, 27 countries and 450 million people, can come up with.
Then we have Starmer and there are simply no printable words to describe him as all his decisions turn into disasters. A few months ago he said he'd take a few days off to arrange the peace in Ukraine with the USA, EU, Russia and Ukraine kowtowing to his obvious superiority. Gone a bit quiet on that of late.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Do you think it's just human nature we don't attribute to other peoples or cultures the same depth of nuance and dynamism we see in ourselves?

What "nuance" would you read into "Death to Israel", "Death to America". How about the cheering in the streets when one of their terrorist attacks succeeds? How about the constant bombardment of civilian targets from Hezbollah in the North and Hamas in the South - both funded by the insane Mullahs who run Iran these days? Radical Islam, which is practiced in too many countries around the world is the essence of a death cult. There is no nuance in their desire to destroy us - but first the Jews.

It's always the Jews.

 

[MarkK]

There is no nuance in their desire to destroy us

The nuance exists in why they have this desire.
• Who, for instance, is actually being destroyed?

the American public doesn't have any memory of what hell war actually is.

•

 

[Pat Hartman]

The nuance exists in why they have this desire.

For us it's easy. They want to destroy us for two reasons. One we can/should control
1. We have interfered in their internal politics far too many times. In the case of Iran, we deposed their king and inserted Raza Pallavi in his place. For reasons I never understand, whenever we do this, we always install someone equally as bad as the despot we deposed. I'm pretty sure we're batting 1000 on this move.
2. The Qur'an tells them we are inferior because we are not Muslim and therefor must be conquered or killed.

For the Jews, it's easier
1. The Qur'an tells them they are inferior because they are not Muslim and therefore must be conquered or killed.

Anything else about nuance you want to know?