Web Based Multi-User Interface: Not a new subject.

Thales750

Formerly Jsanders
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500 thousand lines of code later. For 2 decades it has been foretold. Now we have seen the asteroid.
It has arrived.
The end of manual code writing, and the end of operating system based programming.
In this review and rehashing of an old subject, I would like to have a discussion on Web based databases with Browser interfaces. All done by AIs, methods, pitfalls, advantages, all of it.

What are your thoughts? Don't assume ask for clarification as necessary.

How would you use AIs to build a full scale program? Say, something like an ERP for a midsized company? Something more than asking Chat GPT to write a procedure or a function.
 
People are obsessed with browser based apps because of their ease of distribution and their ability to support remote users, not for any other reasons.
I'm agreeing with most of what you just said, except:
The Users prefer the interface.
This system MUST be mobile.
Access has actually fallen behind on User Interface widgets. It's probably a result of a hundred million more programmers in that arena. I don't know about you, but other than a handful of small systems for local only companies, we spent the last few years working on Chemical Plant UPGRADES and UIs because they have SQL in all of their disparate systems.

Our other large system, the one we will be converting to Browser based is for Design, Engineering, and Construction, I currently have some pretty good mobile methods using Outlook local, Outlook.com, and One Drive. It works ok, but it is not scalable.


I don't need an AI to write an Access program or an SQL database. In both cases though, using the AI for Procedures, Functions and some query stuff works great. It's mostly Functions, Chat GPT really gets functions.

No Form modules, that would be more effort than it's worth. On this part I totally agree with you. I can't just walk in and ask Majel Barrett to write a program, now can I?

But I want to learn how far if can be taken, that' why I started this thread.
 
I'm agreeing with most of what you just said, except:
The Users prefer the interface.
This system MUST be mobile.
Access has actually fallen behind on User Interface widgets. It's probably a result of a hundred million more programmers in that arena. I don't know about you, but other than a handful of small systems for local only companies, we spent the last few years working on Chemical Plant UPGRADES and UIs because they have SQL in all of their disparate systems.

Our other large system, the one we will be converting to Browser based is for Design, Engineering, and Construction, I currently have some pretty good mobile methods using Outlook local, Outlook.com, and One Drive. It works ok, but it is not scalable.


I don't need an AI to write an Access program or an SQL database. In both cases though, using the AI for Procedures, Functions and some query stuff works great. It's mostly Functions, Chat GPT really gets functions.

No Form modules, that would be more effort than it's worth. On this part I totally agree with you. I can't just walk in and ask Majel Barrett to write a program, now can I?

But I want to learn how far if can be taken, that' why I started this thread.
You're on the cutting edge, here. I might even say the bleeding edge. Let us know how you get on, though.
 
You're on the cutting edge, here. I might even say the bleeding edge. Let us know how you get on, though.
LOL. My little company designs, engineers and does the building Science for Coastal Homes that have to stand up to 150 mph winds. My whole life is at the tip of the spear, where bloodletting is common.
 
How would you use AIs to build a full scale program? Say, something like an ERP for a midsized company? Something more than asking Chat GPT to write a procedure or a function. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({});
For web development, choose a stack and a database. So ask the GPT this:
1. I come from ms access, show me some frontend/backend stacks to start with web development
Regenerate the answer multiple times. You will notice a pattern that will help you see what is the most used out there.

Then, to choose a stack, ask the GPT something like:
2. Show me a minimal example of a frontend file and a backend file for each stack and explain what I can expect from the example. Make sure to include how the html and css files will be generated
Again, regenerate the answer multiple times, it will output a lot of stuff, so it might skip some stacks, make sure it does not skip stacks. That will let you see very quickly what you may want to dive into, for instance, I hate Angular, but love React.

Once you choose one that looks nice to you, ask something like:
3. how should I arrange my files for ChosenStackName?
Regenerate, again, you will notice patterns. You will see all kinds of folders and file names, just as your questions about them.

Once you're done with the file structures, ask the GPT:
4. So which folder or file from that structure should I start with?
Yes, regenerate as many times as you can, in fact, you can make suggestions of file structures you might find easier for yourself.

The GPT now knows where you're going, you can ask it something like:
5. Show me the steps to show something on the browser using that stack right now
You know the deal, regen until you notice the patterns. Now you know what to expect, so go watch some tutorial of someone setting up an app with that stack. And make adaptations.

Make it work. Copy the tutorial, whatever, just make it work. Then, ask the GPT:
6. How can I adapt this file for an ERP app? and paste the snippet of code from the tutorial.
Make your adaptations. For example, if in the tutorial, they were using MongoDB and you want to use MySQL, ask the GPT for those adaptations.

This is just an example. When I started there was no GPT, but after watching the outputs to these questions I assure you it will give you very decent results. I'm in fact thrilled about some of the responses and I'm already questioning my beliefs. This is absolutely normal in web development, there's a lot of hype everywhere, but if you focus on one stack and you stay there, it will give you results. Problems arise when you're always looking for the newest, shiniest framework. The antidote is to focus on mature, proven frameworks instead of new ones. Old is not always bad, if it's old and relevant today, it's because it works.

Regarding the topic of this thread, the GPT can help you tons here. But it only has a certain "scope" to work with, you must be the captain in charge of the entire project, you can't upload all your workspace and expect it to understand it all for you (not yet, anyway, give it a few months, hint: it won't be free). I pay for copilot, but even though it's supposed to read my workspace, it can't quite do the thing yet, it's still very good suggesting autocompletion, it's good file scoped, but not workspace scoped. So, again, make something work first, then ask the GPT to make adaptations to the thing that already works, file by file. For that, it's very good.
 
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As Pat mentioned, I have had some interesting adventures with chatty...

I'll tell you about it below, but first an answer to your question (of sorts)...

I believe the essence of your question is about putting a database on the web. This is my answer to that question.

I've posted this on AWF before:-

One of my rainy day jobs is to put a database on the internet using PHP and MySQL. Haven't done it yet, and I probably never will! Still, it's an ambition of sorts.

I did an online course which I thought was fantastic! I highly recommend:-

Robert Tucker of Infinite Skills

I found this PHP MySQL course exceptionally clear and easy to follow. I particularly like Robert Tucker of Infinite Skills, his voice, I could listen to him all day!

The course is currently free on Udemy, and I have seen it in other places on the internet for free as well. I also found the content, the sample files somewhere for free, not sure if I could find them again…

Beginner PHP and MySQL Tutorial

You couldn't go far wrong in taking this free course, to my mind it's exceptional.

I made this note about a “Framework”
(Use a framework)

Regarding chatty, I was discussing the various options of how to open a form and pass information between two forms. A pet topic of mine!

Chatty told me to set the custom property of the form I want to open and then open the form and I would have access to the information in the custom property. I knew immediately that this was wrong!

I told it so, and it gave me one of its usual groveling apologies.

It talks too much! Even when you try and tell it to shut up a bit.

I wonder if it's female?
 
@Edgar_ has made clear, you have to keep redefining your questions. You see that technique everywhere even here. Seldom does an OP or expert understand the question immediately. It usually takes a lot of prompting for both sides to understand the situation.
 
I'm a little old for all this learning. But what else is a guy supposed to do?

Thanks All.
 
ChatGPT - good for functions and SQL - can give some guidelines on configuration but that's IT would not do anything else with it...
It is really great with SQL though. but yes test thorougly.

Webfront ends for CRUD applications?
The following are all php generators of some shape or form - I like them because they are PHP based which allows for hosting on shared wordpress hosting providers which is ridiculosly cheap.. and they really don't have massive vendor lockin if you are only doing your own applications.

PHPRunner - my personal favourite can link it to SQL Server / Postgres / MySQL and MariaDB PHPRunner Link
nubuilder - php open source and free by mysql/mariadb only - nuBuilder link
Dadabik - php generator think it will link to DaDabik link

PHPRunner and Dadabik have an annual charge (or charge to update) so probably likely to be used only by people for their businesses. But for businesses they could save you a LOT of money over consultancy charges in situations with distributed workforces for procedures they are probably a no brainer. Dadabik is really very cheap and the time alone you should save is surely worth it even for amateur projects .. BUT I have not used it.

I've personally tested PHPRunner and nubuilder and I can host them on my shared wordpress hosting for zero additional cost. They are zero vendor lock in Nubuilder is completely free but seems to be maintained by one person. I have clients in PHPRunner who easily cover the cost.

The one advantage they have over MS Access is Browser based applications (it is a big advantage) - they also don't come with a database so forces you to go "professional" and use a more enterprise grade database right from day one - which you should probably be doing with your access applications as well.

I really don't like those that use frameworks such as Java / Python or come with mandatory hosting / database provision and per user and per developer pricing (you kind of need to have phd to understand what cost of ownership will be) and some are very expensive... Not for me.

Access features I miss
Access still allows you to build the nicest complicated forms - especially master / details
Reporting in Access really is the gold standard
Dynamic saving is so nice - save button feels old school
Its Microsoft - OK they are the evil empire but hey they'll probably be about when your children retire and thats a real thing (I upgraded a database application I wrote in 2007 in 5 minutes to latest ms access (I time athletic races with it works great still)
 
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Congratulations on making a legacy application Pat

Those that look down on legacy software are missing the point..

The central principal of the digital age - immortality.

Software engineers / cloud providers are destroying their own foundations if they don't remember this...
Its usually just stupid oversight... "15 years is an eternity in the world of software" --- that's actually a failure.

I note that some cloud providers advertise that they provide extended support I can see myself taking advantage of that.
Interestingly for Microsoft's web app service doesn't seem to provide extended support for their web app services ( it comes as a surprise for some users ) Dev Hut on MS Azure Web App Support
(I think Azure has got better with this and don't actively change your php version on existing services but creating new services with older framewords is unavailable)
 
Microsoft could add native drag and drop to Access. They could have added a Gantt Chart interface like MS Project years ago with the same drag and drop. Instead, they deprecated the SQL interface from MS Project. In the mean time dozens of high quality web based project management programs have gotten years ahead of both Access and Ms Project.
 

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