Would you switch to Private Health Insurance?

[Adam Caramon]

Because according to the protesters, socialism = hitler.

Haha. I know exactly what you mean. I've had conversations with co-workers who say "We don't want a socialistic country", then I ask them what socialism means and they can't explain it.

And I can't tell you how many people I have heard try to compare what the Obama Administration is trying to do to the novel 1984. I try to talk rationally with everyone, but sometimes people are so crazy I can't help but laugh at them.

 

[Alisa]

I try to talk rationally with everyone, but sometimes people are so crazy I can't help but laugh at them.

Or cry, as the case may be.

 

[Fifty2One]

There is no Billing or Collection department in Canadian hospitals. whether you survive the medical care or not. And you do not have to slide the Doctor any money just to have intelligence and forethought of preventative treatment or checkups.

Actually, if you go to the emergency room here, they have to treat you no matter what, whether you can pay, whether you have insurance, or whether you don't. After they treat you, if you survive, then they ask for payment. If you can't pay, then it goes to collections - if the bill is big enough and you can't pay it, you end up going into bankruptcy (over half of all bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills). In the mean time, the hospital and/or the government has to cover the cost of your emergency room visit (indigent care funds, etc.). However, if you want to go to a doctors office to get preventative treatment or checkups, you have to pay first, and if you can't pay, you don't get treatment. What this means is that people who don't have insurance get no preventative care, they wait until it is really really bad and then go to the emergency room. This is the worst of all possible worlds because the treatment in the emergency room will cost easily 10 or 20 times as much as if they had gone to a regular doctor visit, and the taxpayer ends up picking up the tab anyway. The whole point of the current reform is to make regular, preventative treatment accessible and affordable to reduce overall spending on health care. But see, this is long and drawn out and complicated. Rather than taking the time to comprehend these issues, the republicans would rather go around telling everyone that Obama is a "socialist" and a "communist". ooooooh scary.

 

[Pauldohert]

I would not switch to private medical insurance - as demonstated in the US this makes you exceedingly fat.

(In response to a BBC news piece this morning where an American didnt want a health service, cos of the state of British teeth.)

 

[Rich]

(In response to a BBC news piece this morning where an American didnt want a health service, cos of the state of British teeth.)

That's because American marines are being taught to defeat the enemy by simply dazzling them with a friendly smile

 

[Pauldohert]

That's because American marines are being taught to defeat the enemy by simply dazzling them with a friendly smile

Another American said that all the British spoke badly of the NHS and wouldn't recommend it. When asked who these British were - it turned out it was likely one Tory MEP who has been doing the rounds on US telly.

I hope he does the rounds with the view that the HNS should go on British telly next time hes up for election!

 

[Pauldohert]

Ok, lets talk about what kind of country explicitly allows poor people and minorities to die at higher rates and receive less and lower quality medical care than rich people and whites. Lets talk about what kind of country allows powerful private corporations to take billions in profits literally at the expense of its people's lives. Lets talk about people's willingness to buy into republican fear mongering about the proposed reform. Lets talk about the media's complicity in confusing people about what is truly on the table right now.

I would be interested in what you see as the differance between whats propsosed in the US and what we have herein the UK.

 

[Pauldohert]

AS a follow on from post 66

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8200817.stm

 

[Atomic Shrimp]

Another American said that all the British spoke badly of the NHS and wouldn't recommend it. When asked who these British were - it turned out it was likely one Tory MEP who has been doing the rounds on US telly.

Quite possibly a lot of Brits do complain about the NHS - complaining is part of our national culture.

When things fall short of our expectations, we complain (although seldom to the right person)

When things meet or exceed our expectations, we warily, silently accept them.

 

[Pauldohert]

I have only seen a private GP - once in the last 20 years. I waited 3 hrs past my appointment time.

I have only been asked once, if I would like to go private in this country - ten ish years ago with my dentist. I said no.

He continued to treat me on the NHS.

Now I have a differant dentist (last 3 years or so) in the same practice. I have heard that many dentists are returning to the NHS?


The NHS can be infuriating - especially the postcode lottery - but its basic ecomomics. The rules of basic ecomomics dont change if you go private, I think its another falacy being touted around that suddenly if your are privately insured limited resources are somehow limitless.

 

[Atomic Shrimp]

Now I have a differant dentist (last 3 years or so) in the same practice. I have heard that many dentists are returning to the NHS?

This appears to be true in my area - however, NHS dentistry can still turn expensive if you need multiple treatments.

Not sure what happens if you're not exempt from charging (i.e. not on benefits or a student, etc), but can't pay.

 

[oumahexi]

This appears to be true in my area - however, NHS dentistry can still turn expensive if you need multiple treatments.

Not sure what happens if you're not exempt from charging (i.e. not on benefits or a student, etc), but can't pay.

Your teeth rot and fall out. Worst case scenario, you end up with septicemia from the poison produced by the rotting tooth.

Alternatively, you can go to your local dental hospital where they will treat you while teaching students...

 

[Pauldohert]

This appears to be true in my area - however, NHS dentistry can still turn expensive if you need multiple treatments.

Not sure what happens if you're not exempt from charging (i.e. not on benefits or a student, etc), but can't pay.

I'm not too sure on this one - I brush my teeth, and presumably am drinking flouride water.

 

[Pauldohert]

Just to have a blanced view - bbc - NHS

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8200817.stm

Well said John - its like the battle of britain all over again.

In all seriousness - I reckon at least ( 95% wouldn't surprise me) 75% of the UK would be wholeheartedly behind the NHS, rather than a private healthcare option.

Doesn't make it right, but it may correct a few media myths in the states.

Are you allowed free access to the internet and news media - or is it like China over there.

 

[Alisa]

I would be interested in what you see as the differance between whats propsosed in the US and what we have herein the UK.

The US plan does NOT propose to:
-have the government own or operate hospitals or clinics
-have the government employ doctors, nurses, or other health care professionals

The US plan DOES propose to:
-stop the private insurers from denying coverage to anyone for "pre-existing conditions"

-create a publicly operated INSURANCE plan that people may buy into if they prefer what that plan offers as opposed to what they can get with a private plan

I honestly don't see even the slightest resemblance between what the UK has and what the US proposes to have.

 

[Pauldohert]

The US plan does NOT propose to:
-have the government own or operate hospitals or clinics
-have the government employ doctors, nurses, or other health care professionals

The US plan DOES propose to:
-stop the private insurers from denying coverage to anyone for "pre-existing conditions"

-create a publicly operated INSURANCE plan that people may buy into if they prefer what that plan offers as opposed to what they can get with a private plan

I honestly don't see even the slightest resemblance between what the UK has and what the US proposes to have.

Cheers Alisa - hows that actually differant though, to those who pay for and use it?

Would you personnally like the UK system - and why?

I'm not questioning you to see if you are right or wrong - just interested.

 

[Adam Caramon]

Well, in America we have a culture that fears government involvement and control, particularly among the older population. So if you tell a large gathering of people that the proposed health care reform is similar to the UK's, the first thing they will think of is that the government will control everything, government decides who lives and dies, etc.

I personally would be all for a system like the UK has, as time has shown again and again that the UK system ranks better for the average person than does the US system. In the US if you're rich, you get the best of care. If you are not, you get substandard care. I'd be willing to pay more in taxes to provide standard care for everyone.

 

[Pauldohert]

Well, in America we have a culture that fears government involvement and control, particularly among the older population. So if you tell a large gathering of people that the proposed health care reform is similar to the UK's, the first thing they will think of is that the government will control everything, government decides who lives and dies, etc.

I personally would be all for a system like the UK has, as time has shown again and again that the UK system ranks better for the average person than does the US system. In the US if you're rich, you get the best of care. If you are not, you get substandard care. I'd be willing to pay more in taxes to provide standard care for everyone.

The stats I have seen ranks our health as very poor compatitively.

But then we spend little on it, and I think the cultural stiff upper lip may be largely to blame as well as prevalence of smoking and drinking, and eating deep fried mars bars.


I'd rather a govermantt controlled if I lived or died rather than a private health care scheme.

Most negatives you hear on governments anywhere is actually they were a front to some private company and Bush was on the borad or Berlusconi or Blair was doing a lecture tour or whatever - ie profits schewed what was right.

To ingrain profit into the heathcare of a nation seems perverse to me. As does the NHS to huge swathes of the US presumably.

 

[Alisa]

Cheers Alisa - hows that actually differant though, to those who pay for and use it?

Is that a sincere question? Just interested.

Would you personnally like the UK system - and why?

I'm not questioning you to see if you are right or wrong - just interested.

I think the UK system has a lot of benefits, namely, no-one is denied basic medical care due to inability to pay. I also think it is not a terribly efficient system. If you were starting with a clean slate, I think there are many more cost effective ways to accomplish universal coverage. Unfortunately, we never get to start with a clean slate. Where we are is a product of where we started from.

Is the UK system better than the US system? In terms of equality in access to care, yes. In terms of total cost, yes. In terms of overall outcomes, yes. These are all quantifiable measures of a health care system, and UK comes out ahead on each. Where the US system comes out ahead is in medical innovation and access to exceptional care for a price. In other words, if you are stinking rich, you can still get better medical care in the US than in the UK.

In my opinion, it is more beneficial to a country both in terms of societal value and economic value to have equality of access to basic care than to have access to exceptional care for a few. Not everyone agrees with that values assessment, which is fine.

 

[Alisa]

The stats I have seen ranks our health as very poor compatitively.

Source please.